Topic: Babylon 5

[Sirgod]

Ok, well, I didn't watch it when it was on TV, outside of the few episodes where Chekov was a telepath. So  I ordered it  via Netflix or Blockbuster, I forget which, and it should be in the mail today or tomorrow.

I was curious as to what everyone's thoughts where of the series.

I recently wrapped up Earth 2, and was surprised that show didn't go more then what it did. It was an excellent setting and story line.

Stephen

[Nemesis]

I ended up watching it as a result of one of these online quizzes posted here and quite enjoyed it.

The series has excellent continuity as the story line was planned out from the beginning.  There are a few minor slips but they did do quite well. 

[KBF-Crim]

I loved B5...watched every episode I could find...

I liked it because humanity wasnt "sanitised"...

"who are you"

"what do you want"

Two questions...two paths...

[knightstorm]

I ended up watching it as a result of one of these online quizzes posted here and quite enjoyed it.

The series has excellent continuity as the story line was planned out from the beginning.

Not sure I agree.  They claim that now, but that might just be spin.  While Season 2 onwards is definitely one massive story arc, Season 1 seems to be more stand alone in nature.

[Corbomite]

Its awesome. I just got all five seasons. It had the best fleet action sequences since Star Wars VI. The storyline did suffer a bit between the 4th and 5th seasons because UPN dropped it and TNT picked it up at the last minute for the 5th season. They didn't know it was going to happen so they crammed as much as they could into the 4th season to finish the major story arc while sacrificing some minor story arcs that got resolved (a bit out of order) in the 5th season. There are also seven movies out, although only about four are really good and the others are just OK. Don't bother with Excaliber.

[KBF-Crim]

"Don't bother with Excaliber."

I concur....although we do learn a bit more about techno mages...

[Nemesis]

Stephen there are some potential spoilers below so read at your own risk.

I ended up watching it as a result of one of these online quizzes posted here and quite enjoyed it.

The series has excellent continuity as the story line was planned out from the beginning.

Not sure I agree.  They claim that now, but that might just be spin.  While Season 2 onwards is definitely one massive story arc, Season 1 seems to be more stand alone in nature.

Without watching the first season over again here are a few examples of things that presage the future of later seasons.

Season 1, Episode 4: Infection - A living weapon from a planet destroyed by its own defenses after fighting off an alien attack.  Hint of the last "Great War".

Season 1, Episode 6: Mind War - Catherine Sakai runs into a "First One" and is told of them by G'Kar.

Season 1, Episode 11: Survivors - first hint of Clarks conspiracy.

Season 1, Episode 13: Signs and Portents - first appearance of Morden, Delenns reaction to him is consistant with the "Great War" story arc.  Also the bare beginning of Londos path is revealed.  Londos path is consistent with his behaviour through this whole season, including his efforts to leave the path.

Season 1, Episode 16: Eyes - another connection to the "Clark conspiracy"

Season 1, Episode 18: A Voice in the Wilderness - The 5 century old installation on the planet waiting for the time to come.

Season 1, Episode 20: Babylon Squared - The first hints to what actually happened to Babylon 4

Season 1, Episode 22: Chrysalis - connects with Delenns ancestry which she later discovers and explains part of Valens origins.

All of these episodes leave links that are clearly picked up and woven back into the story line.  Hard to do if it wasn't planned that way.

[knightstorm]

Stephen there are some potential spoilers below so read at your own risk.

I ended up watching it as a result of one of these online quizzes posted here and quite enjoyed it.

The series has excellent continuity as the story line was planned out from the beginning.

Not sure I agree.  They claim that now, but that might just be spin.  While Season 2 onwards is definitely one massive story arc, Season 1 seems to be more stand alone in nature.

Without watching the first season over again here are a few examples of things that presage the future of later seasons.

Season 1, Episode 4: Infection - A living weapon from a planet destroyed by its own defenses after fighting off an alien attack.  Hint of the last "Great War".

Season 1, Episode 6: Mind War - Catherine Sakai runs into a "First One" and is told of them by G'Kar.

Season 1, Episode 11: Survivors - first hint of Clarks conspiracy.

Season 1, Episode 13: Signs and Portents - first appearance of Morden, Delenns reaction to him is consistant with the "Great War" story arc.  Also the bare beginning of Londos path is revealed.  Londos path is consistent with his behaviour through this whole season, including his efforts to leave the path.

Season 1, Episode 16: Eyes - another connection to the "Clark conspiracy"

Season 1, Episode 18: A Voice in the Wilderness - The 5 century old installation on the planet waiting for the time to come.

Season 1, Episode 20: Babylon Squared - The first hints to what actually happened to Babylon 4

Season 1, Episode 22: Chrysalis - connects with Delenns ancestry which she later discovers and explains part of Valens origins.

All of these episodes leave links that are clearly picked up and woven back into the story line.  Hard to do if it wasn't planned that way.

While they left a few stubs that they could develop further later on, the episodes in the season just don't seem as interconnected as later ones in the series.  Also, remember the Babylon 4 episode implied that they were bringing the station into the future, that's why they had to come up with an explanation of why future Sinclair appeared much older when they revisited that storyline.

[Sirgod]

Sounds like This will be very entertaining then. Thanks for the insights guys.

Stephen

[Corbomite]

Sounds like This will be very entertaining then. Thanks for the insights guys.

Stephen

Don't forget to watch the pilot, "The Gathering" as it really sets up everything. They include it in the 5 Movie Pack, but I think you can rent it separately. Keep in mind as you're watching it that all the graphics were done on a desktop Mac. Fifteen years ago that was really impressive! 

[Czar Mohab]

On the B4 story arc there is a short stub that is actually in the pilot that not only is quickly said but easy to miss - when Kosh meets his assassin (who is in disguise as one of the leads) he simply says the name of who he is to be, in almost a "wtf are you doing here?" kind of way...

The series Crusade is good enough on its own, but was doomed to failure after the (B5) fourth season closer more or less let us know that the great crusade would succeed... Of note, at the time the end of the fourth season was going to be what ended up at the end of the B5 series but due to the way in which they were informed of the now not-so-canceled season 5 they had to wrap up season 4 just a bit differently, and with haste.

I would HIGHLY recommend watching "The Gathering" and "In the Beginning"; there are arguments over when to watch ItB (before the series, after the series, etc.), and I feel it fits best inbetween seasons 4 and 5. There are enough "do you remember way back when, when we did that one thing and the other thing happened?" lines that tie right into The Gathering that it almost becomes a must, which, for you, it now is. 

Czar "Watch B5 and you'll learn cool new words like 'vivisection'," Mohab

[Nemesis]

One of the things I liked was their use of actors from other shows.  Walter Koenig, Bill Mumy, June Lockhart, Majel Barret Roddenberry.  A nice nod at what has gone before.

[KBF-Crim]

One of the things I liked was their use of actors from other shows.  Walter Koenig, Bill Mumy, June Lockhart, Majel Barret Roddenberry.  A nice nod at what has gone before.

Yes they did...and they also gave them license to play non type cast charactors...

Evil checkoff is a hoot...

[Corbomite]

One of the things I liked was their use of actors from other shows.  Walter Koenig, Bill Mumy, June Lockhart, Majel Barret Roddenberry.  A nice nod at what has gone before.

I loved that part. It was like a Who's Who of sc-fi actors.

[Sirgod]

Well, I'm up to episode 4, or rather I watched up to Episode 4 last night.

That living Organic computer weapon thingie was pretty cool, If not a little over acted, but I loved it.

Should be getting the rest in the mail soon.

I'll bump the pilot up to play when I get into season 4 or so.

Stephen

[knightstorm]

Yes they did...and they also gave them license to play non type cast charactors...

Evil checkoff is a hoot...

Bester wasn't evil, just misunderstood.

[Nemesis]

More spoilers Stephen. 

While they left a few stubs that they could develop further later on, the episodes in the season just don't seem as interconnected as later ones in the series.  Also, remember the Babylon 4 episode implied that they were bringing the station into the future, that's why they had to come up with an explanation of why future Sinclair appeared much older when they revisited that storyline.

Naturally the interconnections were not yet visible, if they were then the characters would have to be aware of them and you don't get the build up.   The author slowly presented the pieces on purpose to allow the audience to become aware of things as the protagonist did.  Sinclair was unaware of Mr Morden and his significance, he wasn't among those visited and had no reason to look for him.  The audience saw Morden but his significance was only slowly revealed. 

The characters visiting Babylon 4 as a rescue team made the assumption of the future because they were unaware of the facts of the prior war.  Being unaware of the war they could not conceive of the need for B4 to fight it.  Also it didn't occur to them that people of the present would be sending it to the past they thought it was people from the other time period taking it and how would those of the past even know of it to take it?  Also as far as they knew no one knew how to travel in time at their native time, they made the mistake of assuming that was because it hadn't been invented  yet when knowledge of it was at least a few centuries old, just concealed from others.

[Nemesis]

That living Organic computer weapon thingie was pretty cool, If not a little over acted, but I loved it.

Stephen

Another episode with one of the "old time" guest performers.  David McCallum, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and the Invisible Man.

[jualdeaux]

I just got back from Wally World. They had all 5 seasons for $20 each. I am very, very tempted to go back and pick them all up at the same time.

I watched them all back when they were originally broadcast, kind of. I didn't have cable so i had to wait until they were re-broadcast in syndication.

[knightstorm]

More spoilers Stephen. 

While they left a few stubs that they could develop further later on, the episodes in the season just don't seem as interconnected as later ones in the series.  Also, remember the Babylon 4 episode implied that they were bringing the station into the future, that's why they had to come up with an explanation of why future Sinclair appeared much older when they revisited that storyline.

The characters visiting Babylon 4 as a rescue team made the assumption of the future because they were unaware of the facts of the prior war.  Being unaware of the war they could not conceive of the need for B4 to fight it.  Also it didn't occur to them that people of the present would be sending it to the past they thought it was people from the other time period taking it and how would those of the past even know of it to take it?  Also as far as they knew no one knew how to travel in time at their native time, they made the mistake of assuming that was because it hadn't been invented  yet when knowledge of it was at least a few centuries old, just concealed from others.

And the audience seeing an aged Sinclair at the end of the episode implied otherwise?  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  To me, the first season just doesn't seem to fit in that well with the grand arc scheme of the rest of the series.

[Nemesis]

And the audience seeing an aged Sinclair at the end of the episode implied otherwise?  I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  To me, the first season just doesn't seem to fit in that well with the grand arc scheme of the rest of the series.

All the older Sinclair really implies is that he was involved at a later time of his personal timeline.  Which matches the facts that are ultimately shown.  The rest is audience assumption. 

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Honestly, I can't believe no one has mention this...

IMO, the best part of this entire series is the interaction & dynamic relationship between Molari & G'kar.

Also, since I have had a thing for Patricia Tallman since I saw her in "knightriders" I really enjoyed her as Lyta.

[Nemesis]

Honestly, I can't believe no one has mention this...

IMO, the best part of this entire series is the interaction & dynamic relationship between Molari & G'kar.

I felt all the characters were well done and had excellent interactions.  The Londo and G'Kar characters are much more flamboyant than the others so they get to have more fireworks.

I like the fact that like real people they have flaws.  The obvious racial hatred between Londo and G'Kar, Garibaldi and his drinking problem and so on. 

Also the little touches where they built in things that came from the real world.  Ivanovas broken foot was Claudia Christians real sprained ankle.  Ivanova telling the smuggler she wouldn't tell Garibaldi who brought in the stuff that made his hair fall out and turn grey (the actor lost the hair suddenly between seasons). Using Bruce Boxlietners actual wife for his characters wife was nice too.

Also, since I have had a thing for Patricia Tallman since I saw her in "knightriders" I really enjoyed her as Lyta.

The first time I watched Babylon 5 throughm when a friend called me and asked what I was doing he said he didn't watch the show as it had no one "hot", I just said "Susan Ivanova" (and gave him the actresses name as well) and when he said "Who?" I told him he is gay.  I later sent him some pictures to prove my point.   He reminds me of Londo. 

None of that is to be taken as my not appreciating Lyta but I hadn't seen her yet in the show and would have to list her as a close #2. 

[Lepton]

My main objection to the show in general is that it took forever for anything to happen in it.  The story is advanced so slowly that you are left feeling at the end of it that the writers really didn't have that much to say in the first place.

[Sirgod]

My main objection to the show in general is that it took forever for anything to happen in it.  The story is advanced so slowly that you are left feeling at the end of it that the writers really didn't have that much to say in the first place.

You know, I'm trying to fight that myself. IT was one reason why I didn't care for the early episodes of DS9. It does look like they get of the station at times, And episode 5 with evil telekenitic Chekov was fun.

Stephen

[Nemesis]

My main objection to the show in general is that it took forever for anything to happen in it.  The story is advanced so slowly that you are left feeling at the end of it that the writers really didn't have that much to say in the first place.

You know, I'm trying to fight that myself. IT was one reason why I didn't care for the early episodes of DS9. It does look like they get of the station at times, And episode 5 with evil telekenitic Chekov was fun.

Stephen

The first season they are laying the basis of multiple storylines that interlink further on in the series.

The telepath line.

The theft of B4.

The conflict between Narn and Centauri.

The Morden line.

Hints of the First Ones and their significance.

Mimbari/Vorlon connection revealed but not explained.

Sinclairs "there is a hole in your mind".

Rangers mentioned more than revealed.

And so forth.  In the beginning none of these seem connected but the spider web is slowly built up.  Not everything has to be fast paced and full of space battles and explosions.  The space battles do come later for those who must have them. 

Note:  I am trying to avoid too many spoilers for Stephen.

[The Postman]

I am currently the EA commander in a turn based campaign that uses OP for battle resolution.

http://evensong.proboards.com/index.cgi?
http://sfbuaw.com/b52.php

I have seen the first 8 episodes of season 2 and have picked up many plot points through other means. However I don't know any of the background behind B4. Could someone fill me in or point me in the right direction (which season) to get more info on B4. In the current turn in this campaign I suspect that B4 may have just materialized near my area and I was hoping to get some info on what to expect.

[Nemesis]

I am currently the EA commander in a turn based campaign that uses OP for battle resolution.

http://evensong.proboards.com/index.cgi?
http://sfbuaw.com/b52.php

I have seen the first 8 episodes of season 2 and have picked up many plot points through other means. However I don't know any of the background behind B4. Could someone fill me in or point me in the right direction (which season) to get more info on B4. In the current turn in this campaign I suspect that B4 may have just materialized near my area and I was hoping to get some info on what to expect.

Brief PM sent to avoid too many spoilers for Stephen.

Hope that helps.  Feel freee to PM me with any specific questions you may have.

[The Postman]

Thanks, that helps

[Nemesis]

Thanks, that helps

No problem.

They never show how it is armed but I would assume it to be similar to B5.  B5 starts off moderately armed and is upgraded later.  It does have several fighter squadrons from the beginning and extra room for more which are added later.  As I recall it has anti missile weapons along with missile launchers and some laser batteries.  It initially seemed relatively short on long range weapons but appeared to get more at the upgrade.

B5 also has internal docking and repair bays for multiple ships.

[Sirgod]

On disc 5 right now, and wow, this show has grown on me big time. I'm looking forward to all the shadow war stuff coming up, and did I see the Written previews right? The commander becomes President?

Stephen

[knightstorm]

No.  The commander leaves the show at the beginning of season 2.  His successor Captain Sheridan who is a descendant of the civil war general eventually becomes a president.

[Corbomite]

On disc 5 right now, and wow, this show has grown on me big time. I'm looking forward to all the shadow war stuff coming up, and did I see the Written previews right? The commander becomes President?

Stephen

DEATHWALKER!!!!!!! 


Commander Sinclair gets a much better job, but you are going to have to wait....

[knightstorm]

Commander Sinclair gets a much better job, but you are going to have to wait....

That's debatable.

*spoilers*

First off, he ends up losing his hair and getting a bone on the back of his head.  Then, when the war is over, those ingrates turn on him and his family.

[atheorhaven]

I dunno, he does get some nookie later on. 

Personally, I was a fan of the show since I first saw the teaser trailer for the show.  When I first saw a Starfury pivot in Newtonian flight, I knew that I was going to be watching something different.  And I loved it ever since.

The characters that stayed with me were Londo, G'Kar, Marcus, Ivanova, and Sinclair.  For a few years after the show ended, I'd occasionally think of a quip or a comment and hear it in the voice and manner of a character.

I really internalized the show, and love it to bits.

Season 1 was written from the point of view of "everday crap happens, and here's some scenes from everyday life on a space trading hub".  So things might not seem connected, it's more because they weren't.  But, you started to get things laced together, and things started to get funneled to a point of fusion.  And that was the beauty of Babylon 5.

Crusade was a different animal, but only because it was killed early.  I read some of the unfilmed episodes, and tracked down some details on the season ender.  What we saw of Crusade?  Totally the first half of Season 1 of B5.  I'd read the crew of the Excaliber discover something about Earthforce that puts them on the outside, on the run.  Gideon?  Season ender has him shot and in a coma.  The source of the Technomages power.. revealed.  Things get darker and more action happens.. except, it was killed.  They do find the cure.. after Dureena's people die.  Dureena starts down the path towards becoming a Technomage.. and it's not a good path for her to take.

Lots and lots of good stuff., but we'll probably never see it now.  I will say though, Bester does die eventually.  Off-world, forgotten, alone.  Would have been shown in Crusade.  Would have been a great show.  That's what TNT didn't get, they wanted wrestling and T&A in space.. and that's why the show was shut down.

[jualdeaux]

You guys are really talking me into getting those boxed sets after all! LOL

[Wraith 413]

 If you're a fan of good Sci-Fi, then you owe to yourself to get the series, jualdeaux. You won't be disappointed. 

[jualdeaux]

Oh, I've seen them all. I just don't want to spend the money right now. LOL

[atheorhaven]

You know?  The one set of questions I always had with the series was what happened to the Vorlon splinter that left Sheridan in Sector 14, and which Vorlon was reconning the timeline and why.

[Sirgod]

Well, I figured I would give an update on my viewing of this wonderful show. IT has taken me quite a long time to see what I have , as the wife keeps ordering crap on Netflix, or they seem to have certain disks out when I request them.

Anyways, I have wrapped up Season 3, Where Sheridan Nukes Laura Engels and her Crabs. I have seen the first episode of season 4 , and All I can figure, is Sheridan met the Devil at the end, As her dad Michael Landon was pissed that he killed his daughter, and used his Touched by angel folk, Called Vorlons in this series, to get some payback.

I'm still amazed that the robot couldn't protect Will Robinson from whatever horrifying Contraption That disfigured the back of his head. Londo is my favorite guy to hate right now, While G'kar is becoming my Favorite.

Anyways, I'm still loving this show, and the amount of continuity in it is amazing.

Stephen

[Nemesis]

You may think you have seen the series but you have only seen the first half.  The 2nd half comes when you watch it again and see all the connections that are there but not linked up for the characters or audience yet.

[stoneyface]

babylon 5 has been and will continue to be one of my favorite sci fi series EVER!!! superb writing, great cast, excellent guest writers and awesome storyline + epic bad guys! w00t. this series had it all. my favorite ep was the neil gaimann halloween episode and the penn and teller guest appearance

[Nemesis]

Stephen there are some potential spoilers below so read at your own risk.

I ended up watching it as a result of one of these online quizzes posted here and quite enjoyed it.

The series has excellent continuity as the story line was planned out from the beginning.

Not sure I agree.  They claim that now, but that might just be spin.  While Season 2 onwards is definitely one massive story arc, Season 1 seems to be more stand alone in nature.

Without watching the first season over again here are a few examples of things that presage the future of later seasons.

Season 1, Episode 4: Infection - A living weapon from a planet destroyed by its own defenses after fighting off an alien attack.  Hint of the last "Great War".

Season 1, Episode 6: Mind War - Catherine Sakai runs into a "First One" and is told of them by G'Kar.

Season 1, Episode 11: Survivors - first hint of Clarks conspiracy.

Season 1, Episode 13: Signs and Portents - first appearance of Morden, Delenns reaction to him is consistant with the "Great War" story arc.  Also the bare beginning of Londos path is revealed.  Londos path is consistent with his behaviour through this whole season, including his efforts to leave the path.

Season 1, Episode 16: Eyes - another connection to the "Clark conspiracy"

Season 1, Episode 18: A Voice in the Wilderness - The 5 century old installation on the planet waiting for the time to come.

Season 1, Episode 20: Babylon Squared - The first hints to what actually happened to Babylon 4

Season 1, Episode 22: Chrysalis - connects with Delenns ancestry which she later discovers and explains part of Valens origins.

All of these episodes leave links that are clearly picked up and woven back into the story line.  Hard to do if it wasn't planned that way.

While they left a few stubs that they could develop further later on, the episodes in the season just don't seem as interconnected as later ones in the series.  Also, remember the Babylon 4 episode implied that they were bringing the station into the future, that's why they had to come up with an explanation of why future Sinclair appeared much older when they revisited that storyline.

Bit of a Necro bump but I'm watching it again. 

In the pilot episode where Lyta is in Kosh's mind to find where the poison entered his body and he creates the false Sinclair he addresses him as "Entil Zar Valen".  In the first few episodes we learn who Valen is.  Kosh presumably remembers Valen from the prior Shadow war.  The Entil Zar title is revealed later.

[Sirgod]

It was just amazing the amount of detail they put into the show, like your example.

Stephen

[EschelonOfJudgemnt]

Incidentally, a bunch of Russian types made a Star Fury simulator a while back.   Track down a copy of 'Babylon 5 - I Found Her: Danger and Opportunity' via Google if you are interested.

BTW, website for development of said game here: (Black Omega is the sequel they are currently plugging away at)
http://ifhgame.ru/main/

Newtownian physics is very much in play here, so getting the hang of cancelling momentum in one direction and changing the direction of travel, while attempting to dogfight, takes some practice.  The designers note that space dogfighting shouldn't be easy, and I agree with this observation.  Freelancer dogfighting was much easier IMHO...

Mastering the tutorials is highly recommended.

The control mappings aren't bad, although for us left handers I'd recommend remapping the thruster keys to the number pad and relocating the camera angles to other keys.  A joystick isn't required, but probably would make for a more enjoyable experience.

The game is far from complete (only a few scenarios and such currently), but definitely worth a gander.

[Nemesis]

Another thing that hints at the future.  In TKO when Walker shows up as Garibaldi is about to be backstabbed and decks the knife man he asks Garibaldi "when are you going to learn to watch your back".  This is before Garibaldi is shot in the back and almost killed.