Topic: So anyone still play?  (Read 21371 times)

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Offline Age

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #40 on: December 27, 2013, 03:29:55 pm »


Sorry, the game is dead because it doesn't work with modern operating systems (cannot draft with Windows 7 or Vista).  And nothing can fix this, I was one of the last people hosting servers and saw this game die kicking and screaming.

We'd only need 50-100 active players for a great D2 campaign, but with the game not running on new OSes and XP being retired in 2014 it's just plain old done.

What we either need is a "real" game based on the SFB IP or something modern that can be modded into an SFCish game.

let's face it . . . Trek games suck.  I've played them all, they are all horrible.  SFC was awesome because it was based on SFB and not retricted to the Trek stuff which was never meant to be a game.  Trek games are all full of fanboi bullsh*t and "ubber-ships" and crap that should never be playable like the Borg.  SFC/SFB weren't perfect but man, it was a hell of a lot better than anything else.

I'm dreaming, I know it'll never happen, but it would fill the void as there is no game out there that is as good as this was.

I wouldn't say they are all bad if you are a Trek Fan then you will like all of them errr STO has few things to be desired but it is not bad.It certianly feels when you play Klingon that you are actually playing it and I hate to say unlike SFC.There would be NO SFB without Star Trek and none of those ships in Star Trek had drones or fighters.

I am wanting to get Bridge Commander becasue of this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weqld7Z0hs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_weqld7Z0hs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MF4nM1anUzI

To Adam you may say that about STFC 3 but which mods did you play as all of them are good especially the big 3.That is if you can tell me thier names which we over at STG hosted 2 of them.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #41 on: December 27, 2013, 03:32:23 pm »
Well, as a profitable venture I'd say it is out of the realm of possibility, but if some rich fanboi wants to spend it, there is no problem here that money cannot solve. Has anyone considered Kickstarter?

I remember getting threatened by SVC over the use of his IP profitable or not.  I'm not lawyer so I don't know what can or cannot be done legally but doing this without ADB and Paramounts permission is just asking for litigation.
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Offline Corbomite

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #42 on: December 27, 2013, 03:34:02 pm »
I wouldn't say they are all bad if you are a Trek Fan then you will like all of them errr STO has few things to be desired but it is not bad.It certianly feels when you play Klingon that you are actually playing it and I hate to say unlike SFC.There would be NO SFB without Star Trek and none of those ships in Star Trek had drones or fighters.


They had fighters in DS9 during the Dominion War and misslies were shot at the Enterprise in TOS on at least two occasions IIRC: Patters of Force and one other episode I can't remember right off hand.

Offline Age

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #43 on: December 27, 2013, 03:34:15 pm »
There is a way to make it more likely.  Just use the SFB rules (no deal for Trek itself) leave out the explicitly Trek stuff which is names, background and images.  Calling things "The Federation" predates Trek so that is Okay, Lyrans, Hydrans, ISC are fine too.  Done right allowing modding and fan mods make it into Trek (many fan mods for Trek in other games Galciv II for example). 
CBS wouldn't allow for them to use the Licensing of the Ships no K D7s or BoP as well as those for the romulans and Federation Models.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #44 on: December 27, 2013, 03:34:54 pm »
Well, as a profitable venture I'd say it is out of the realm of possibility, but if some rich fanboi wants to spend it, there is no problem here that money cannot solve. Has anyone considered Kickstarter?

I remember getting threatened by SVC over the use of his IP profitable or not.  I'm not lawyer so I don't know what can or cannot be done legally but doing this without ADB and Paramounts permission is just asking for litigation.

As I said, permission just costs money.

Offline Age

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #45 on: December 27, 2013, 03:37:18 pm »
I wouldn't say they are all bad if you are a Trek Fan then you will like all of them errr STO has few things to be desired but it is not bad.It certianly feels when you play Klingon that you are actually playing it and I hate to say unlike SFC.There would be NO SFB without Star Trek and none of those ships in Star Trek had drones or fighters.


They had fighters in DS9 during the Dominion War and misslies were shot at the Enterprise in TOS on at least two occasions IIRC: Patters of Force and one other episode I can't remember right off hand.
Yes they shot from an astroid not a ship and yes they had small fighters which the maquie used but that was in TNG not in TOS time period.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #46 on: December 27, 2013, 03:38:43 pm »
There is a way to make it more likely.  Just use the SFB rules (no deal for Trek itself) leave out the explicitly Trek stuff which is names, background and images.  Calling things "The Federation" predates Trek so that is Okay, Lyrans, Hydrans, ISC are fine too.  Done right allowing modding and fan mods make it into Trek (many fan mods for Trek in other games Galciv II for example). 

CBS wouldn't allow for thme to use the Licensing of the Ship no K D7s or BoP as well as those for the romulans and Federation Models.

Which does not contradict what I said.  No explicit Trek in the game.  Explicit Trek as after market fan mods. 
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2013, 03:41:34 pm »
In TOS relatively few ships were seen and their capabilities are poorly defined.  There is nothing in TOS that says fighters and missiles weren't in use.

The Tholian ships appeared once what capabilities did they actually show?
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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Offline Age

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2013, 03:42:03 pm »
There is a way to make it more likely.  Just use the SFB rules (no deal for Trek itself) leave out the explicitly Trek stuff which is names, background and images.  Calling things "The Federation" predates Trek so that is Okay, Lyrans, Hydrans, ISC are fine too.  Done right allowing modding and fan mods make it into Trek (many fan mods for Trek in other games Galciv II for example). 

CBS wouldn't allow for thme to use the Licensing of the Ship no K D7s or BoP as well as those for the romulans and Federation Models.

Which does not contradict what I said.  No explicit Trek in the game.  Explicit Trek as after market fan mods. 
It would still have to be abroved by CBS or looked at.

Offline Corbomite

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #49 on: December 27, 2013, 03:45:04 pm »
They had fighters in DS9 during the Dominion War and misslies were shot at the Enterprise in TOS on at least two occasions IIRC: Patters of Force and one other episode I can't remember right off hand.
Yes they shot from an astroid not a ship and yes they had small fighters which the maquie used but that was in TNG not in TOS time period.


No, the Feds used them to great effect in Sacrifice of Angels. Just because we never see fighters in TOS (mostly because they were not a war and had no need for them) doesn't mean they can't or don't exist.


EDIT: Nem beat me to it and to add to his example, the Gorn were never shown to use plasma, but that's what we have for them.

Offline Age

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2013, 03:45:42 pm »
I wouldn't say they are poorly defined and they may have used fighter and missles or they may not have.I would think the later aa phasers,disruptors and torpedoes were good enough.


You know they Saying Corb. if not seen on screen it is not real.

Nemisis I am not taking my time to do that.CBS wants any cent they make from Star Trek which is why.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2013, 03:47:11 pm »
It would still have to be abroved by CBS or looked at.

Please provide evidence that they did so for VegaTrek or the GalCiv II Trek mod. 
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2013, 03:50:10 pm »
I've actually stopped ...  tried to think of a delicate way to say this without starting something.  After all these years ...  I'd love to be able to NOT cause trouble.

Actually when OP was released it was based on SFB ideas:  not a strict interpretation of SFB.  This one particular idea was probably one of the most consistently contested discussions (aside from the magic photon).  I know since my son was a close friends with a member of the development team.

That said I mean no disrespect to those who enjoy SFB.   However, if this sort of game were ever revisited it would probably be closer to OP than SFB. There is always room for speculation and dreaming.  I would love to see another OP based game come to life.  It was FUN !!  And now that I actually could make more of a genuine contribution (something besides flipping hexes) ...  it really gets the old adrenalin going !

EDIT...  and yes ..  anything that would be done on a large enough scale to warrant public use would probably have to be approved by CBS  (as I understand it).  STO license / development group  (whom ever that is) ..  might  have a few words to say as well  (just a guess).
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2013, 03:57:07 pm »
Of course it wasn't strictly true to SFB.  Given that one was a turn based board game and the other a real time computer game it couldn't be.  But it was based as closely on SFB as practical.  It was where they broke that connection (non SFB ships and non Eschelon ISC) that the game had playability issues.
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #54 on: December 27, 2013, 04:08:16 pm »
Of course it wasn't strictly true to SFB.  Given that one was a turn based board game and the other a real time computer game it couldn't be.  But it was based as closely on SFB as practical.  It was where they broke that connection (non SFB ships and non Eschelon ISC) that the game had playability issues.
agreed...  however, there were some folks who made endless argumentation and even spent a lot of time developing some of the SFB ship lists.  Again:  nothing wrong with that sort of thing if that is the style you prefer.

IMHO that was one of the weaknesses ...  If we had it to do again today I would suggest more than one server:   PVP only; PVP/PVE combo; RP; SFB (RP). 
If you aim at nothing:  you WILL hit it every time !

Offline Nemesis

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #55 on: December 27, 2013, 04:31:10 pm »
For me the SFB rule set was its greatest strength it had more years of play testing than any complex computer game ever has had or will have.  There was more balance outside of the ISC and X-Ships than any other game that begins to rival its complexity. 

Are there places where SFB went wrong?  Absolutely.  Creating weapons whose features were designed to give an over whelming advantage against their enemy (Hydran Hellbore vs Early Klingons).  Designing ships to avoid the DAC issue with forward hull by using central hull is another (there was no real reason Hydrans shouldn't have had fore and aft hull).  Some are perfectly legitimate like developing ADD, dogfight drones and strengthening those rear shields to defend better vs Hellbore for example. 
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
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Offline OlBuzzard

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #56 on: December 27, 2013, 04:41:56 pm »
For me the SFB rule set was its greatest strength it had more years of play testing than any complex computer game ever has had or will have.  There was more balance outside of the ISC and X-Ships than any other game that begins to rival its complexity. 

Are there places where SFB went wrong?  Absolutely.  Creating weapons whose features were designed to give an over whelming advantage against their enemy (Hydran Hellbore vs Early Klingons).  Designing ships to avoid the DAC issue with forward hull by using central hull is another (there was no real reason Hydrans shouldn't have had fore and aft hull).  Some are perfectly legitimate like developing ADD, dogfight drones and strengthening those rear shields to defend better vs Hellbore for example.

IMHO there were some balance issues ...  (as you have pointed out) ..  BUT nothing that could not be fixed.  Unfortunately some folks were never satisfied unless some of those items were basically nerfed.  Let me hasten to say that I really would prefer to not go there out of respect to everyone here and out of respect to where this thread started.  Let's just say that I agree with you in some areas! 
However, I still love the "X" ships !   ;)  One of my favorite designs was a modified CLC that was done for a MOD.  I loved the extra Gatling phasers on it... it was a great ship to fly wing in.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #57 on: December 27, 2013, 04:52:47 pm »
A lot of the "nerfing" was fantasy.  My (now ex)brother-in-law said at one point there was no reason to play Romulan as they had been nerfed.  So I told him I'd practice with them for the week and the next weekend I'd teach him the plasma ballet.  In the first battlefest he played Fed and I started with the "nerfed" warbird+.  I took his FF, DD and NCL without taking a scratch (then it crashed I always wondered if he did it on purpose).  He shut up about nerfing after that.  :)
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #58 on: December 27, 2013, 04:53:44 pm »
I've actually stopped ...  tried to think of a delicate way to say this without starting something.  After all these years ...  I'd love to be able to NOT cause trouble.

Actually when OP was released it was based on SFB ideas:  not a strict interpretation of SFB.  This one particular idea was probably one of the most consistently contested discussions (aside from the magic photon).  I know since my son was a close friends with a member of the development team.

That said I mean no disrespect to those who enjoy SFB.   However, if this sort of game were ever revisited it would probably be closer to OP than SFB. There is always room for speculation and dreaming.  I would love to see another OP based game come to life.  It was FUN !!  And now that I actually could make more of a genuine contribution (something besides flipping hexes) ...  it really gets the old adrenalin going !

EDIT...  and yes ..  anything that would be done on a large enough scale to warrant public use would probably have to be approved by CBS  (as I understand it).  STO license / development group  (whom ever that is) ..  might  have a few words to say as well  (just a guess).

It was 90% SFB and 7% of the other 10% was crap.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: So anyone still play?
« Reply #59 on: December 27, 2013, 04:56:16 pm »
For me the SFB rule set was its greatest strength it had more years of play testing than any complex computer game ever has had or will have.  There was more balance outside of the ISC and X-Ships than any other game that begins to rival its complexity. 

Are there places where SFB went wrong?  Absolutely.  Creating weapons whose features were designed to give an over whelming advantage against their enemy (Hydran Hellbore vs Early Klingons).  Designing ships to avoid the DAC issue with forward hull by using central hull is another (there was no real reason Hydrans shouldn't have had fore and aft hull).  Some are perfectly legitimate like developing ADD, dogfight drones and strengthening those rear shields to defend better vs Hellbore for example.

IMHO there were some balance issues ...  (as you have pointed out) ..  BUT nothing that could not be fixed.  Unfortunately some folks were never satisfied unless some of those items were basically nerfed.  Let me hasten to say that I really would prefer to not go there out of respect to everyone here and out of respect to where this thread started.  Let's just say that I agree with you in some areas! 
However, I still love the "X" ships !   ;)  One of my favorite designs was a modified CLC that was done for a MOD.  I loved the extra Gatling phasers on it... it was a great ship to fly wing in.

I have to say . . . one of the best moment in SFC was when you and your son left.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .