Topic: Star Trek Axanar

[Captain Adam]

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[Tulwar]

Aw, but the Enterprise looks nothing like the JJprize!

[Corbomite]

I'd watch that, but they'll never get the money to keep it up. I like how the Klingon actors are now playing humans relfecting on the Klingons.

[Tulwar]

But it's still pretty good.

You've read my past posts, so you have to know that was sarcasm.  I guess I'll just have to give a serious critique of the ship:

It has TOS saucer, and I much prefer that over TMP saucer.  I prefer TMP details, but TMP saucer got flattened, so it looses a bit of weirdness.  I like spaceships to be a little weird.  I prefer TMP torpedo section, but this version of the Big-E has one.  This is a major improvement over TOS, because it makes sense to store all the fuel for the torpedoes on the secondary hull.  I also like the warp nacelles.  They're smaller than TMP nacelles, but that's ok.  The glow on the fronts on the nacelles are a little too bright.  I'm sure they can clean that up before release.

[Corbomite]

I don't know what time period they are going for, but I like how it looks that it is in the ten years between the end of TOS and TMP.

[Tulwar]

I kno.

It's amazing how all these little guys keep going. The trailer is good though. The voices of the actors are strong and intense. Smart move. And did you notice the Cylon. Lol

I could have sworn the guy giving the impassioned speech was Vin Diesel.  He'd make a better Klingon than the people playing Klingons.  I missed the Cylon.  I'll have to look it over again.

I don't know what time period they are going for, but I like how it looks that it is in the ten years between the end of TOS and TMP.

This is the what I really hate about the ST canon.  The difference between TOS Enterprise and TMP Enterprise stems from 3 axis:  15 years experience in space model workshops, budgets for same, and Big Screen detail requirements.  The Enterprise refit was just a convention to explain the inadequacy of the original Enterprise model for a Cinematic feature.  What that convention can never do is make an early 1960's television spaceship model work in a HDTV world.  That model needs to be abandoned for higher production standards.  TMP model is really good.  That isn't to say it couldn't be better, but if I had to stick with any model made for any ST, that would be it.

In 2nd Place comes TMP Klingon Battlecruiser.  The studio model had too many ridiculous gimblies, and they blued it all to Hades in post production, but it was cool-looking anyway.

I'm tired of ST productions wearing the ST canon like a strait-jacket.  This is the one thing that JJ Abrams got right.  ST can go in so many directions.  Personally, I'd like to see someone take up the concept of that a starship contains an enormous power source.  Nuclear weapons and nuclear power were very much on the minds of 1960's sci-fi writers.  With Star Wars in the 1970's, spaceships and space weapons were not so high energy as highly magical, and I think that universe effected the creators of ST.

There is a good example of this between "The Enterprise Incident" and STIII "The Search for Spock."  In TOS, Kirk bluffs that he's going to self destruct the Enterprise.  He does this by sending a general warning of an enormous blast radius.  As the Romulans decode the message, they give the Big-E space to slip away and try out the cloaking device.  In STIII, Kirk does self destruct the Enterprise, but it just blows a few big holes in itself and falls out of orbit.  Considering that they were able to siphon one ounce of anti-matter from the engines in TOS episode "Obsession," any physicist could tell you that a starship would have a truly scary explosive potential.

As a matter of fact, TOS did better with high energy explosions than any later production of ST.  They used strobe lights to represent the flash of truly powerful detonations.  It may have been cheaper than showing a nice orange fireball, but considering spaceships run on anti-matter and not gasoline, I should think the resulting explosion would tend toward the blue end of the spectrum, if not down into the gamma rays.

Even Warner Brothers classic cartoons of the 1950's had a better handle on high energy.  The "Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator" looked like a firecracker but was supposed to deliver a (very literally) "Earth shattering kaboom."

[Lieutenant_Q]

I would be really worried if someone thought that the best way to destroy a Starship was to INTENTIONALLY set off it's warp core.  See the destruction of the ENT-D in Generations.  The Self-Destruct sequence is something that would need to be used in different situations, obviously destroying the Starship is the last option, but if it comes down to it, you never know if you need to minimize, or maximize the "collateral damage".  Also, check the fact that Kirk would have known that after sacrificing the Enterprise, he still needs a way off of the Planet that he was about to strand himself on (the condition of the planet wasn't yet known to him) the Bird of Prey was his only way home, Destruct Sequence 1 was probably the smallest explosion, while Destruct Sequence 2 or 3 would be something that would take out the Enterprise, and half the Star System in the process.

It looks to me that they are going for the time between ENT and TOS, about 20 years prior to TOS, Garth of Izar and Robert April are supposed to be in this project.  I hope they finish it, because it looks good so far.

[Tulwar]

I would be really worried if someone thought that the best way to destroy a Starship was to INTENTIONALLY set off it's warp core.  See the destruction of the ENT-D in Generations.  The Self-Destruct sequence is something that would need to be used in different situations, obviously destroying the Starship is the last option, but if it comes down to it, you never know if you need to minimize, or maximize the "collateral damage".  Also, check the fact that Kirk would have known that after sacrificing the Enterprise, he still needs a way off of the Planet that he was about to strand himself on (the condition of the planet wasn't yet known to him) the Bird of Prey was his only way home, Destruct Sequence 1 was probably the smallest explosion, while Destruct Sequence 2 or 3 would be something that would take out the Enterprise, and half the Star System in the process.

It looks to me that they are going for the time between ENT and TOS, about 20 years prior to TOS, Garth of Izar and Robert April are supposed to be in this project.  I hope they finish it, because it looks good so far.

I did think they might have methods of reducing collateral damage in the event of self-destruction, but I think it is more a matter of the creators' imagination.  On top of that, how can you render anti-matter inert?  Back in the 1950's, our government was planning to fight and win a nuclear war with the Soviet Union.  MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) had not yet become policy.  During the Cuban Missile Crisis, the United States military determined that the US would prevail in an all out nuclear exchange should it come to that.  Within the next 2 years, Matt Jefferies designed the USS Enterprise model, with the main engines separated from the hull as if they contained "dangerous energies."  TOS was produced right after nuclear tensions between the super-powers was at their height.

By the time the ST movies were made, nuclear weapons were something people could put to the background of their minds.  Ray-guns were clean, magically-powered weapons.  As a matter of fact, they got too clean and magical, so in Aliens, they reverted back to old fashioned gun-powder.

To get one in the mindset for high energy, I'd like to direct you to some films released by the US Department of Energy.  I would remind you that these weapons are BS compared to the weapon at the disposal of a starship commander.

Nuclear Weapons Tests: Operation Upshot-Knothole - 1953 Documentary - WDTVLIVE42

[Tulwar]

I need to add another one to show how crazy nuclear tests become, right at the inception of ST.

hydrogen bomb and nuclear tests in space

I will withhold my comments on this, for now.

[Tulwar]

"Red Matter," Puh!  I was excited to go an see the first JJ Trek, and was happy to see new actors, but that turned me off right there.  ST is supposed to be hard SF pushed to the fantastic, with some fantasy aliens thrown in to make it interesting.

Here's something for you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO1nvmDjofo

[Tulwar]

BTW I came across this bit of shiny when I first saw the promo you posted about.  I commented on this version of the Big E.  I like it almost as much as TMP Enterprise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Imrcpt_a888

[Corbomite]

There is a good example of this between "The Enterprise Incident" and STIII "The Search for Spock."  In TOS, Kirk bluffs that he's going to self destruct the Enterprise.  He does this by sending a general warning of an enormous blast radius.  As the Romulans decode the message, they give the Big-E space to slip away and try out the cloaking device.  In STIII, Kirk does self destruct the Enterprise, but it just blows a few big holes in itself and falls out of orbit.  Considering that they were able to siphon one ounce of anti-matter from the engines in TOS episode "Obsession," any physicist could tell you that a starship would have a truly scary explosive potential.

I believe that you are confusing two episodes for one. In "The Enterprise Incident", Kirk never pulled the explosion bluff. He stole the cloaking device and they installed it while Spock stalled for time, eventually running away and cloaking to evade the Romulans. You are thinking of "The Deadly Years", where after being cured from his old age Kirk bluffs the Romulans by announcing that there is no hope for escape and that he will detonate the "corbomite device recently installed". He then uses the ground they give up to make their escape. There is no evidence that such a device, or a material such as corbomite, even exists. The original ruse was to an alien who had no way of knowing what it was or if it was real. The Romulans giving ground at least points to the fact that the substance does actually exist and has significant destructive power.

[Lieutenant_Q]

If you read the website at http://StartrekAxanar.com it tells you exactly what the back story is.  It IS set in the Prime timeline.  It's about the 4 years war that ended roughly 20 years prior to TOS.

During the War the JJ ships were pretty much all wiped out by the Klingons, newer ship designs, more akin to the original Enterprise (not the JJ Enterprise) were more combat oriented and able to go toe-to-toe with the Klingons.


As for explosions, yes an ounce of anti-matter could take out a City Block, it's clear that Starships have several hundred tonnes of it in storage.  However, whats not clear is if there is any diminishing returns on that much antimatter.  There's not that much matter to react with, once the ship itself is out of the way.  Also remember that even though its called anti-matter, its really not anti-matter.  It's anti-something, and it will only react with whatever that something is.  If they were smart about it, (and capable of doing it) they would make the anti-matter be the opposite of whatever the smallest amount of matter on board the ship is, to reduce the chance of an accident destroying the whole ship.  While we have been able to create Anti-Hydrogen, that to me is asking for trouble.  Any storage containers have to have no Hydrogen at all in them, that's a very difficult construction practice (for the moment), not saying it's not possible, but just extremely difficult.  To me it seems likely that one of the higher noble gasses is the most likely candidate to be used as fuel for a M/AM reactor, heavier, but easier to filter out.

[Tulwar]

There is a good example of this between "The Enterprise Incident" and STIII "The Search for Spock."  In TOS, Kirk bluffs that he's going to self destruct the Enterprise.  He does this by sending a general warning of an enormous blast radius.  As the Romulans decode the message, they give the Big-E space to slip away and try out the cloaking device.  In STIII, Kirk does self destruct the Enterprise, but it just blows a few big holes in itself and falls out of orbit.  Considering that they were able to siphon one ounce of anti-matter from the engines in TOS episode "Obsession," any physicist could tell you that a starship would have a truly scary explosive potential.

I believe that you are confusing two episodes for one. In "The Enterprise Incident", Kirk never pulled the explosion bluff. He stole the cloaking device and they installed it while Spock stalled for time, eventually running away and cloaking to evade the Romulans. You are thinking of "The Deadly Years", where after being cured from his old age Kirk bluffs the Romulans by announcing that there is no hope for escape and that he will detonate the "corbomite device recently installed". He then uses the ground they give up to make their escape. There is no evidence that such a device, or a material such as corbomite, even exists. The original ruse was to an alien who had no way of knowing what it was or if it was real. The Romulans giving ground at least points to the fact that the substance does actually exist and has significant destructive power.

ST first aired the year I was born.  In my earliest memories, it was rerun at 11:00 on Sunday mornings.  It must have occupied that time slot over ten years.  The problem was that I'm a late sleeper.  I know ST more from the ends of episodes.  It occupies a place in my psyche where it is conflated with memories of dreams.  For this reason, I you will probably need to correct me again.

Now that TOS is on Netflix, I've been watching each episode, beginning to end.  I limit myself to one every other day.  Unfortunately, I skipped "The Deadly Years," because I thought that aging and reversing the aging was ridiculous, and did not want to subject myself to it.  I guess I have to, now.

[FPF-DieHard]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zh4JbLhH_8w

Watch it in HD!

WOW.  I think I need to change my shorts.

[Tulwar]

If you read the website at http://StartrekAxanar.com it tells you exactly what the back story is.  It IS set in the Prime timeline.  It's about the 4 years war that ended roughly 20 years prior to TOS.

During the War the JJ ships were pretty much all wiped out by the Klingons, newer ship designs, more akin to the original Enterprise (not the JJ Enterprise) were more combat oriented and able to go toe-to-toe with the Klingons.


As for explosions, yes an ounce of anti-matter could take out a City Block, it's clear that Starships have several hundred tonnes of it in storage.  However, whats not clear is if there is any diminishing returns on that much antimatter.  There's not that much matter to react with, once the ship itself is out of the way.  Also remember that even though its called anti-matter, its really not anti-matter.  It's anti-something, and it will only react with whatever that something is.  If they were smart about it, (and capable of doing it) they would make the anti-matter be the opposite of whatever the smallest amount of matter on board the ship is, to reduce the chance of an accident destroying the whole ship.  While we have been able to create Anti-Hydrogen, that to me is asking for trouble.  Any storage containers have to have no Hydrogen at all in them, that's a very difficult construction practice (for the moment), not saying it's not possible, but just extremely difficult.  To me it seems likely that one of the higher noble gasses is the most likely candidate to be used as fuel for a M/AM reactor, heavier, but easier to filter out.

Please don't say the JJ-ships ever existed.  While they're plain ugly, I really can't take their impossible inter-dimensional dream-like configuration.  I mean, the Enterprise is not Dr. Who's tardis.

Based on one Wikipedia entry, my rough calculation puts one ounce of anti-matter into the range of 600Kt yield, so one gram would be worth about 700Kg of TNT.  OK, I see, I may have written "ounce," but you read "gram."  So, one O-Z of anti-matter is only worth about a dozen Tzara Bombas.  I would have thought it enough crack a planet in two.  It's good to have someone inspire you to look things up and do the calculations, every now and then.

This gets me to revisit ideas inspired by "Balance of Terror."  Spock said the Romulan ship was powered by "simple impulse."  Since interplanetary travel on the ST time scale is impossible without "warp speed," what the writers may have meant was that it had a had a fusion power plant instead of a matter/anti-matter reactor.  Should a Romulan torpedo be composed of hundreds of Kilos of fusion fuel, and a photon torpedo composed of only tens of grams of anti-matter, the Romulan weapon could very well be much more powerful than the federation weapon.  I like sci-fi when it obeys the laws of physics in unexpected ways.

As far as storing anti-matter goes, they've only recently been able to store Anti-Hydrogen, and then, up to 16 minutes.  To think of fusing anti-hydrogen into heavier elements would require a feedback powered containment system that boggles the imagination.  Then, we are talking about a civilization with warp drive, so this wouldn't be far out at all.  No wonder why gold is "worthless."  It could very well be industrial waste, and associated with dangerous radiation.  The US actually contemplated casing nuclear weapons in gold to produce more fall-out.

[Tulwar]

Awesome. I love the videos. Was that a Gorn design? Or some weird Romulan. Threw me off.

I don't know what it is either, but it is now my 3rd favorite Star Trek model.

[Sirgod]

WOW! I just got around to watching this trailer, and man, that looks awesome!

The reflections of both sides, The CandyMan vs. the Klingons, This would make for a great show.

Stephen

[Bernard Guignard]

Saw the trailer and I'm looking forward to seeing the first episode 

[Age]

These look more like JJ ships and hasn't Star Trek been $crewed around to much.I much prefer this over that.it may have better talent but lacks originality.

http://youtu.be/419hNYe2OaY