Topic: We see you!  (Read 16258 times)

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Offline Strat

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #20 on: March 31, 2016, 09:49:44 pm »
I don't remember why I was told to wait, unfortunately, it was a few years ago now. In fact I doubt anyone does.

It's important to know that I may have the source, but I don't have ultimate rights on what I can do with it. The code for it all is in the DNet repository for many years now.

Offline Javora

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2016, 07:17:01 am »
Any chance of getting it released now?  At this point it's better late than never.  Who owns the rights to the source code?  I would love to see Tar, d4v1ks, and Exeter being able to do more than hex editing if they want to.  How can we make that happen?

Offline Captain Adam

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2016, 07:39:51 am »
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 04:58:29 am by Captain Adam »

Offline Strat

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2016, 07:52:56 am »
As far as I understand it, the code is owned by Dynaverse Gaming Association, of which XC_Frey is on the Board of Directors. It was obtained from Taldren, but he was required to create this legal entity in order to get the legal rights.

http://www.dynaverse.net/about/about_dga.php
http://www.dynaverse.net/about/board_directors.php

It is a legal entity in the USA created several years ago to obtain permission to continue work on this game.

Exeter and I [Edit: And others before us] have already signed a NDA to have access to the code. But we operate within certain bounds what we can do with it. Some are DGA bounds, other are legal bounds placed on DGA. (Such as, I believe, still placing the game on a ISO, is apparently a bound placed on DGA.) I'm not a legal expert on what can and cannot be done with a 15 year old game with licensed Star Trek material in it.

To obtain access to contribute to code, you must obtain permission from DGA, and thus Frey, who will send you a NDA to sign.

Currently, and for some unknown exact time, the DGA Source code repository is offline.

If you wish for others to make contributions, you need to kindly request it from Frey.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 08:16:45 am by Strat »

Offline Captain Adam

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2016, 08:18:23 am »
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 04:46:04 am by Captain Adam »

Offline Strat

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #25 on: April 01, 2016, 08:29:36 am »
I agree.

Don't get negative. Years of that have gotten us to this point.

Focus on getting along and trying to get cooperation.

Offline Fallen_Warrior

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #26 on: April 01, 2016, 10:03:00 am »
Firstly. This is not directed directly at you Strat. Since this is the very first post you have interacted with that I have been a part of. (Which is telling in itself as I'm a moderator for a single sub board. One that has seen no action in close to 8 years. Yet moderators for the boards that are active aren't even active themselves)

I'm going to go over your post and respond to it, as it is the ONLY feedback from the management we as a community have been given in years.
As such I will respond to the management and not you personally. So when i say "you" I am referring to all of the management not a single person, but as a group.

Discouragement... Sure you did, all the management have either actively or inactively ignored our requests for information, for assistance or even maintenance, hell even simple requests to close threads and bring in new moderators have been ignored.

There could have been reasons as to why this happened. But not giving them before any lack of anything worth of comment is a sign of willing ignorance or incompetence... it damages the relationship that Management should have with the community. It leaves us an impression that you do not trust us. That you do not care about the community that you claim to be so proud of. That is quite frankly disgraceful.

As management it is your duty and obligation to the community to respond to valid questions or requests. Even more so when some of us have signed NDA's and have been given ZERO feedback apart from Exeter saying he doesn't know as it falls to management.... Where has that left us 8 years and nothing to show for it (this is about SFC4 and requests for the code so people didn't have to backwards engineer stuff)

You personally may not have encouraged or discouraged anything but your lack of involvement or even simple communication is alarming. Giving reasons after the fact comes across more as an excuse to cover your own tails for been lazy sods, rather than admitting you messed up and wish to make amends.

We see members of management on line all the time. So they must be looking at stuff.... No comments though, just lurking like a stalker. So your statements really come across as a piss poor idea of public relations and frankly insulting.

Now the comment about recognition..... What an accusation! You imply we are 'Glory Hunters' Please explain this to me? If we wanted to make names for ourselves. Why on earth would we be still modding a 20 year old set of games? We would have moved on to games that are in the limelight. hell some of us did and are making games that have only one valid reason for being....  Glory and the money that comes from it.
What this community has done is selfless and shows that we as creators are still giving back to the community, even when the community is only twenty people at times. That we have helped you build this community and continue to do so shows OUR love for it, whilst your lack of anything shows the opposite.. It also implies that you really don't listen to what your community says to you.

If you claim to respect Exeter, then why the hell did you leave him out to dry when the community started to believe that SFC4 is nothing but vaporware and a way to get all the work done for your pet project without doing any of the work yourselves. He was bombarded with messages about how poor of a job he was doing. When in fact it was your own lack of interest or reply to help back him when he needed answers to reassure us.

What about d4k1ks, Tar, Corb and the other coders who have done all the major improvements in the last few months?

You commend them now on the work they have done, but if you spoke to them and gave them the information they requested, (even if it was under a NDA to keep your tails safe) It would have been done a heck of a lot faster before the community became a shadow of it's former self.
YOU would have helped keep interest going, YOU would have helped alleviate any concerns or doubts about the project.

We don't even know if SFC4 will have to be paid for yet, yet are requested to hand over our work without any kind of contract or promise of compensation if it is decided to be sold. We as a community have pointed this out several times and yet were ignored....

See a patten here. I personally would tell you all to F**k yourselves and F**k off, but you aren't around enough for it to make a difference.

Keeping the community doing the work in the dark is suicide for a project of the scale of creating a new game. Let alone bringing what are now ancient games up to date to help keep the community alive... Something that YOU as management have every obligation to help in its continuation.

I suggest that as Management you pull your thumbs out of your collective backsides and put as much effort into things as the community has. Otherwise just close the doors and let the community die instead of inflicting a death of a thousand cuts like you have been so far.
All that remains are ashes caused by neglect and self loathing

Offline Strat

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #27 on: April 01, 2016, 10:35:10 am »
I'm sorry to everyone.

Please realize, I have NO rights to do anything. My title doesn't mean as much as you think. I am NOT management. I am an unpaid mule with no rights or power, and I am not communicated with by management what-so-ever, for at least 3 years, and a fancy forum title. I DO have limited forum moderation privileges. That's it. And code left over from an offline repository.

What I meant was that contributing out of personal desire is the only thing that will keep anyone active here.

There is a lot behind the scenes I do not spell out to the public, because I don't want to discourage others, even though I myself am burnt out. Including fights I fought, things I contributed, and work accomplished.

Some of how you feel is exactly why I am glad to hand over the reigns. I want people to surpass me.

So even though I don't hear from management, I can't exactly hand anything over for fear of possible legal action.

I understand how you feel.. more than you realize. I'm sorry. This is why I am retired.

I can't keep getting invested to hit walls and upset community members. It stresses me out too, just like you.

Offline Fallen_Warrior

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2016, 10:41:09 am »
Then demand that Frey do something instead of been a lurking troll
All that remains are ashes caused by neglect and self loathing

Offline Strat

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2016, 10:56:08 am »
My words mean no more than yours.

Besides, that won't get the results you think it will.

And if what the community really wants for me to do is leave them alone, then you bet I would comply.

Offline Fallen_Warrior

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #30 on: April 01, 2016, 11:01:04 am »
Honestly Strat, that answer is such a cop out and a complete passing of the buck... " Oh its not me! Even though I hold the fancy title" That fancy title that you have means you have a higher level of respect from the management than the rest of us little people who are so below Frey and the rest of management that they don't even reply to us.

So spare me and the community from your half truths and just be bloody honest with us for once... 20 years and this is how you treat us all. No wonder no one wants to donate to keep this community alive anymore.

Then your admitting that what we say here mean Feck all to the management then.......

What the community asks for and doesn't have the balls to demand. Is that we all be taken seriously for once instead of been ignored.

All that remains are ashes caused by neglect and self loathing

Offline Fallen_Warrior

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #31 on: April 01, 2016, 11:42:08 am »
Also Strat, You keep saying how people want you to step down... Step down from what? You haven't posted crap in a year.... So what is it exactly that you do here? And if you want to leave and pass the reigns over then do so! Stop talking about it and just do it instead of making yourself to be some sort of martyr.

There are far more active people here who would be willing to do that unpaid mule work that you don't seem to care about. if it means keeping the community alive which you and management dont seem to care about... And Frey if you read this. Answer the community you claim to love so much. you are all acting like cowards. its infuriating and disgusting how you lot treat this community.
All that remains are ashes caused by neglect and self loathing

Offline TarMinyatur

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #32 on: April 01, 2016, 11:45:07 am »
I know it is important to express frustration. And it is important for management, retired or not, to acknowledge our complaints. I believe Strat has done so sufficiently.

At this point, we will continue to reverse-engineer the code to maintain and enhance the SFC series. I suggest we prepare for the day that Dynaverse.net goes offline permanently. Perhaps it would be best if we, the players, had our own bulletin board and file storage for Starfleet Command.

Offline Captain Adam

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #33 on: April 01, 2016, 12:19:00 pm »
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 04:54:40 am by Captain Adam »

Offline Captain Adam

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2016, 12:24:29 pm »
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« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 04:46:35 am by Captain Adam »

Offline Nemesis

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2016, 02:47:04 pm »
And we need someone that can sticky important threads and keep things such as side bar from over taken threads. 

I check the forums practically everyday and will sticky threads on request (if I agree with you of course).  Just PM me and it should be stickied within 24 hours in most cases or a PM returned stating my disagreement. 
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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Offline Fallen_Warrior

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2016, 03:26:49 pm »
Frankly it's not up to you to agree or disagree with us. If we as a community want something stickied, locked or deleted. As a mod, you should know this. You are supposed to handle disputes and help serve the community. You do not get to make the choices that the community has already asked for. The Modelling forum has several old outdated redundant threads. If you were really been a mod you would follow threads, prune stuff when its no longer valid. Help settle disputes.

We shouldn't have to PM anyone to get something done if its posted in the thread. So I will restate my request make an active member of the modelling boards its moderator. CaptainAdam, KlingonFanatic or myself are the most active there. Pick one or all so all timezones are covered. As a community we self manage.... That can not be done when the mods aren't there


Honestly this place is becoming a joke. Nice going Frey, you could have stopped by and made a comment, it would have defused everything. Instead everyone but you or an actual member of management who isn't trying to worm out of stuff has come and given half effort..... Way to show you are listening to the Community.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2016, 03:41:29 pm by Fallen_Warrior »
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Offline Javora

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2016, 03:51:18 pm »
I don't have a lot of time but there are a couple of things I want to comment on briefly.  First and foremost, thank you Strat for what you have done with the CE project.  You helped kept this game alive.  I for one would like you to spend more time with the hex editors not less if you're willing.

We already have another forum out there for us to set up shop over at Punisher's forum.  It's a place where some of the people who have been banned here hang out and talk about politics mostly.  It would suit our needs and we would have more people who like the old game to see what we are doing.  Technically I already have moderator rights there and I don't think Pun would care.

Lastly, I want to state why I haven't taken a more active role in this.  My wife had a stroke and between working full time and caring for her I haven't had the time.  I haven't even had the time to play a game in the last three weeks let alone hex edit one.  I check this forum on my phone when I get a break not on a computer.  And frankly after not doing any coding 20 years I don't feel comfortable with it.  So until my life changes this is all I can do.  Thank you for your understanding.

Offline Fallen_Warrior

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #38 on: April 01, 2016, 04:03:24 pm »
We already have another forum out there for us to set up shop over at Punisher's forum.  It's a place where some of the people who have been banned here hang out and talk about politics mostly.  It would suit our needs and we would have more people who like the old game to see what we are doing.  Technically I already have moderator rights there and I don't think Pun would care.

Link please?

Lastly, I want to state why I haven't taken a more active role in this.  My wife had a stroke and between working full time and caring for her I haven't had the time. 

Terribly sorry to hear about your wife man. I can sympathise. My wife is my full time carer, due to my having 2 different spinal conditions. I know how much hard work she has to do to look after me and our son. It must feel like hell for both of you. Just keep pushing on and doing what you can. Tell her how amazing she is and never let her forget how much you love her. You are each others rocks against the torrent.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: We see you!
« Reply #39 on: April 01, 2016, 04:33:54 pm »
Frankly it's not up to you to agree or disagree with us. If we as a community want something stickied, locked or deleted. As a mod, you should know this. You are supposed to handle disputes and help serve the community. You do not get to make the choices that the community has already asked for. The Modelling forum has several old outdated redundant threads. If you were really been a mod you would follow threads, prune stuff when its no longer valid. Help settle disputes.

Too many stickies make the forum unreadable so there has to be someone to keep things under control.  Secondly "we the community"?  one person ultimately will make a decision on making it a sticky unless you are doing a poll to see if it is the community that wants it and not just you.  No single person speaks for the community as we haven't elected such a spokesman.  And yes if multiple people are saying it needs to be stickied I'm more likely to do it though I've never refused yet. 
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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