Topic: Give Romulans a quantum singularity (Read 21347 times)

Aenigma · « **on:** January 22, 2003, 02:51:55 am »

The Romulan Star Empire in the series use singularity engines on their ships, along with the standard warpdrives. Wouldn't it be great if we could have a singularity in the game as well? Romulans are reknowned for their great advantages in engine technology so why not?

I don't believe it should produce more warp power than a lvl X standard core, but it should be lighter (6500 instead of 7900) and it should be a lot more expensive (40000 instead of the ±20000 for the normal X warpcore).

Just an idea.

Aenigma

Commodore · « **Reply #1 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:59:21 am »

Ya, give them a singularity so that the rom players will have to go back to romulan space to refuel after enery battle!

ActiveX · « **Reply #2 on:** January 22, 2003, 04:00:12 am »

Actually. this would solve the Warbird maneuverability problem...the QSD would have a negative mass, maybe negative 5000 or so, this would be interesting to test...hmm...and this is why Warbirds could outmaneuver most ships half its size...

LongTooth · « **Reply #3 on:** January 22, 2003, 04:48:24 am »

The quantum singularity is a black hole it does not need to be refuled or shut down
In fact it cant be shut down

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #4 on:** January 22, 2003, 04:59:05 am »

Good idea. That is the first step towards the greatly needed racial flavor...
And the Warbird could really use some more engine mass.

Aenigma · « **Reply #5 on:** January 22, 2003, 05:09:38 am »

Quote:

.....the QSD would have a negative mass, maybe negative 5000 or so

We do not know if Quantum singularities, or black holes, even have mass, so asuming they have negative mass is a bit straightforward. If they don't have mass, there still has to be quite a casing around it to contain it, so it should have a positive mass. It wouldn't be fair to other races if it didn't have a positive mass.

Aenigma

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #6 on:** January 22, 2003, 05:26:32 am »

Hmm... actually black holes are extremely massive, but it would be pretty useless to have a huge QSD instead of a warp core.

BTW not only warbirds are supposed to be powered by QSDs, in fact, the romulans don't use standard warp cores at all, only QSDs in every ship. That's the reason for them having hollow parts (I hink I read that somewhere...).

Maybe It would be fair to have a very efficient warp core (AKA QSD) in exchange for it being easily damaged (compared to what warp cores will be after the patch) or having a moderate chance of it destabilizing somehow.

Aenigma · « **Reply #7 on:** January 22, 2003, 06:15:23 am »

Black holes are indeed extremely massive, but we don't know if this mass is actually mass as we know it. Because of the extreme circumstances inside the singularity it could be energy as well. Actually mass and energy are connected.

Aenigma

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #8 on:** January 22, 2003, 06:47:39 am »

I fear this will lead into a scientific debate if this goes on hehe...

Even though we don't know what are the conditions of matter, energy, or both inside a black hole (there are some interesting theories though), this is, below the event horizon, we actually know that black holes act as extremely massive star bodies due to the gravitational disturbances they create. If they create a gravitational disturbance, regardless of the actual conditions of the black hole itself, it is logic to think that the source(?) that is creating the disturbance will affect everything about it, in this case, a ship using it as an energy source...or not...

Cleaven · « **Reply #9 on:** January 22, 2003, 07:07:22 am »

Black holes do not need much mass in a stellar sense, with their formation being possible for a star only a little bigger than our own Sol.

But a quantum singularity, if one actually existed, would not have mass on this order. It would be much smaller, having sufficient mass to produce the required spatial distortion to provide warp power and yet still be containable. Could gravitons be manipulated to negate mass? Well you already have gravity webs keeping Sulu's backside in his plastic chair while he is at the helm station and anti-grav units to move around very heavy (confused and self-destructing) space probes so the precident has been set.

ActiveX · « **Reply #10 on:** January 22, 2003, 07:54:36 am »

Actually, the supposed 'canon' approach to expalining QSDs is simple:

Since the actual mass of the Singularity is way too much for a ship to move, the Romulans use inertial dampeners to negate the mass effects of the singularity. This effect actually make the ship seems to be less in mass than the actual masses of the parts it is composed of. This is why a Warbird on the TV series can dance around a Galaxy...

So, I think all we need to change is the masses of the Rom cores to the reciprocal values...basically just use the same number, but make it negative...

Does this work? It makes the Roms more like the Roms...

Robb Stark · « **Reply #11 on:** January 22, 2003, 08:14:14 am »

How does it make the "Roms more like Roms?" All I'm seeing here, for practical purposes, is the idea that the mass of the warp cores for Romulans be reduced. You can say it's because of their Quantum Singularities if you like, or you can say it's because of a double cheeseburger in space - the practical result is the warp core mass is reduced.

The practical upshot is that Romulan ships would have more mass for thrusters and impulse. Faster, more maneuverable Romulans... is this what the game needs? I don't think so. Speed and maneuverability are supposed to be the Klingon advantages. Give those advantages to the Romulans, and we'll see even LESS racial diversity, not more.

ActiveX · « **Reply #12 on:** January 22, 2003, 08:20:06 am »

Oh did I mention that only large Romulans ships could even think about using a QSD? And isnt it the large Rommies ships that are horribly slow?

Whiplash · « **Reply #13 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:41:03 am »

The Rom singularity was their power core. It would be there in place of a warp core. I have no idea which would be more massive. Containing exploding antimatter takes some serious hardware. Containing a (lot of?) rapidly spinning micro-black-holes would take some serious hardware also. I don't think there is a justification for saying one is lighter or better than the other.

You could state that the Rom warp core is powered by a QSD rather than M-AM annihilation. Its a name change only. So my question is, What would you change to the way a warp core operates to give the Roms individual flavor (thats also not unbalancing)?

Speaking of cores, the Breen, if they ever appear, should get a warpcore power-dampening weapon. The only odd thing is it doesn't affect Klingon power cores. Don't know about Rom. They can't give them a weapon that only affected Feds. Would anyone play with it?

W.

NJAntman · « **Reply #15 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:51:48 am »

I don't care about the specifics. Just the thought of popping a Rom and watching the debris fall back into the spinning singularity! Haven't seen that since SFC1! (somewhere, think it was a bonus mission?) Granted the patch to include it better contain a better damage graphic or watching the Rom go pop would be short lived at short range.

762 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 22, 2003, 10:20:20 am »

Agreed. But when I blow up a Warbird it should trigger a massive phase transition which sucks up the entire sector into the point where it died.

Also, Fed ships should have their yogurt dispensers.

Tannhauser · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2003, 10:33:25 am »

Here's a thought (two, actually):
1. There's no need to alter the mass of the Romulan engines. Instead, just give them more power. Perhaps one of the Romulan advantages should be the fact that their warp drives provide more power than the other races.
2. I believe the patch will alter the damage done by an exploding ship so that it is based on the level of the warp drive, or how much of it is still undamaged, or something like that. Well, simply double the damage for Romulans since they use an artificial quantum singularity.

theRomulan · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2003, 12:07:05 pm »

Having flown Romulan quite a bit, they do not need more maneuverability. That's ridiculous. The Romulans can't have their cake and everyone else's too.

Romulans, contrary to popular belief, are far from inferior, or devoid of disadvantages.

1.) Cloaking device. Sure, it ain't so hot right now with the bugs and the ease of probes, but if you stay out of the person frontal view, keep distance, move position a lot, and actually decloak when to fire at appropriate times, then romulans are pretty powerful.

2.) Plasma torpedoes, despite this so called 'horrid' hit rate, actually does hit quite a bit, and does a good deal of damage. The truth is, it's not a long range weapon meant to be fired at even light angular velocities. Don't fire unless you know your shot is pretty much dead on, or you get a tractor to bring velocity to zero. Don't fire while at point blank range, that hikes velocity up to 100. Don't fire when you're still turning. Etc. etc. etc.

3.) Disruptors recharge rate is not the best, but the damage is pretty decent, especially if you overload.

Giving roms, especially their bigger ships like the warbird, more maneuverability is crazy. We'd be giving them the most powerful heavy weapon in the game, along with a nice cloaking device, and then the ability to run circles around their opponents to boot. That's asking for trouble. Warbird has only three heavy hardpoints. Yes, and there's a reason for that. You can load it up with heavy plasma if you wanted. That's incredible crunch power, I hope no one gets hit with that. If they had anymore heavy weapons, we'd all be screaming for our lives. Add on a cloaking device to escape our aim and appear behind us. No, the romulans are just fine, thank you.

Aenigma · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2003, 12:51:52 pm »

......................................You just spread confidential information! The Tal Shiar will have you executed for this!

Well, i still believe that Romulans should get a qs-drive besides the warpcores, and NO i'm not proposing to give them a big bonus. Does anyone read the beginning of a post?

It will give some 1400 (or less should it be more balanced) extra to spend on engine space, a lvl 5 engine and a lvl 5 thruster (total mass 1850) are the best you can fit to it with a warpcore X. With just 1400 extra mass you can get only VII both, but it will still be not too maneouvrable or fast, at least not as much as klingons. It is stated that:

Romulans have the weakest armor. Their ships are build for surprise attacks, and are rather fragile. www.strategyplanet.com/sfc/sfc3/info_rom_ships.shtml

They are build for surprise attacks, but if you have to warp to surprise someone (get behind one without being detected), you'll end up dead if they have anti-cloak on-line.

Aenigma

Thanos1 · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2003, 01:56:26 pm »

Actually, Robb Stark (hey nice name btw, another Martin fan:D), the Warbird has THREE heavy hardpoints, all facing forward. The raptor has four, with one facing rear.

The above, combined with the fact that the warbird is slower, heavier, needs more power and has only one more primary hardpoint (360 arc, but doesn't mean much when you are a Rom) than the Raptor, makes me forget about the Warbird altogether and stick with the BCH.

-suleo

Cmdr. Krotz · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2003, 01:56:37 pm »

Roms are going to be plenty competitive when the official patch is finally released- probes being fixed makes cloaking much more viable, and plasmas that bat 3 for 3 against tractored targets (or can even do so at ranges up to 20+, sometimes) are plentiful improvements enough, just wait and see...

There isn't really any special ST reason to believe quantum singularity drives are particularly better than standard warp drives, if anything, they are meant to represent romulan ingenuity in overcoming a problem that severely hindered their ability to become major players in the ST universe. In SFC1&2 manuals, it alludes to the RSE being resource-poor; in old, mostly forgotten, pre-ST:NG lore, dilithium was extremely scarce in the RSE, enough so that while the romulans could certainly design effective warp drives, they were SOL when it came to production, which made getting klingon ships an advantage when the rom/klingon alliance was formed. The QSD (didn't they have SFC1 mssions involving roms experiementing w/ QSDs, I almost think I vaguely remember such a thing, could just be my imagination though), rather than representing an inherently superior system, is instead an alternative technology designed by the romulans to get around dilithium supply problems...it's already assumed in the game that roms have QSDs powering their warp drives, in-lieu of the matter/antimatter power systems of other races (as demonstrated when roms sabotage their QSDs in one of the last missions of the SFC3 fed campaign).

EagleEye · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:23:52 pm »

It is unfortunate that we cannot all come to the conclusion that the Romulan empire is at a disadvantage when compiared to other races.

I see no way, logicly, that any person looking at the situation from an objective position could come to any other. I feel that the romulans are not what they should be. I understand that is is difficult to remove yourself from your current favorate race and be objective, but for the purposes of this discusion it would be greatly appreciated.

As for my take on the situation, I must concur with all who have posted in favor of giving the romulans a better edge in warp core mass-to-power ratio.

Thanos1 · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:32:28 pm »

Oh, my bad then; I don't have the beta patch. But still, given the current state of affairs, the Raptor is superior. I of course wouldn't mind at all the forthcoming changes :}.
And on the issue of overloading: My raptor config (3HPlas, 4Diz2S, 1AMM, Warp9) can o/l the plasma while keeping everything else at nominal (green) power. And after I unload plasma, I can o/l diz and keep them that way until plasma reloads (or cloak and o/l shields). Works quite effectively, but you have to be fast on those sliders.
Which brings me to a final observation: Why-oh-why could they not have implemented a 'locking' slider or have some slider pre-sets. I mean, a 10 year-old game (xwing) had those...

-suleo

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:44:32 pm »

Where do I get that beta patch?

Cmdr. Krotz · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2003, 03:10:44 pm »

Those power sliders really do need some work- it's bad enough the way it doesn't always want to give nominal power to all primaries, heavies, and shields, from the get-go (and annoyance common to one playing klingons), instead prefering to overload a couple k-photons and underpower the dizzies...given the way it really seems one needs to continually shift power around to get the most out of rom weapons, I would certainly applaud the addition of some power allocation presets (a definite feature-request for after the bugs are mostly purged from the game).

Sorry SoT, the beta patch was originally released as a public beta, to get some much requested fixes in people's hand right away, but that went against Activision policies (they seem to like to keep the number of total patches low, and as inclusive of fixes as possible, probably to avoid the image of distributing broken games), so it was recalled, so if you didn't get it, you probably won't. As far as future beta patches (there's enough stuff still needing work that I wouldn't be suprised if another beta will be available to test before the official release is ready), Mark Pfeiffer, the Taldren QA guy, posted that Activision gave them permission to take on quite a few testers, if you are interested, you should send an e-mail to Mark@taldren.com, with something about wanting to be a "visioneer" in the subject line (visioneer is a reference to Activision's external beta testing program, from what I recall). Hope that helps.

Cmdr. Krotz the Thoughtful Klingon-in-Exilie

Tremok · « **Reply #30 on:** January 22, 2003, 07:32:03 pm »

Wouldn't a Q-WarpCore be infinite power, theorically?

Anyway, I don't know where you people get the nimble Warbird info. Everwhere I look I find that the WB is a bruiser. It doesn't rely on nimbleness but its fly right up to your face and pounds you into quite forcefully into hell with a plasma-laden Thors Hammer.

ActiveX · « **Reply #32 on:** January 22, 2003, 08:30:47 pm »

the ship wasnt very small, wasnt it almost the size of Ent-D?

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #35 on:** January 23, 2003, 08:32:20 am »

I guess we'll have to wait until the patch is out to see the new engine masses in romulan ships, BUT I don't think that will fix the lack of "racial flavor" anyway...

Tulmahk · « **Reply #38 on:** January 23, 2003, 04:39:03 pm »

Remiak,

Going over your numbers agian, I see what you're doing with them now.

And yes, I'm forced to agree with you. You are absolutely right. The Feds do have the best Warp cores overall, followed by Klingons (for their smaller ships, anyway) and then last, as usual, the Roms.

Would you agree that Romulan players who use the Warbird should be using a Warp IX core? That's the conclusion I've come to, and it's the stragegy that I always use, since I'm an unapologetic Warbird flyer.

Cleaven · « **Reply #41 on:** January 23, 2003, 08:00:40 pm »

When the game first came out and people started crunching the numbers it was noted that the Warp 9 efficiency was probably the result of a typo because it didn't fit with the rest of the warp cores in a smoother way. 9,9,-5,10 and 1,-1,-8,5 for the Fed and Klingon ratios is inconsistent at the ninth position.

Aenigma · « **Reply #42 on:** January 24, 2003, 12:53:50 am »

So what do suggested, make the warpcore heavier and less powerful to compenstate for the other races. Now that would be a great idea

The difficulty with the warbird is that you can have
a: a very slow ship with powerful weapons
or b: a very fast ship (±50) with puny weapons (that's why my latest outfit carries no heavy-plasmas, they cost just too much energy for my warpcore IX, but instead has three AM-Minelayers, which are quite nasty in 1v1, especially with this speed).

Aenigma
In The Service of The Empire

Aenigma · « **Reply #43 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:51:55 am »

The Romulan Star Empire in the series use singularity engines on their ships, along with the standard warpdrives. Wouldn't it be great if we could have a singularity in the game as well? Romulans are reknowned for their great advantages in engine technology so why not?

I don't believe it should produce more warp power than a lvl X standard core, but it should be lighter (6500 instead of 7900) and it should be a lot more expensive (40000 instead of the ±20000 for the normal X warpcore).

Just an idea.

Aenigma

Commodore · « **Reply #44 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:59:21 am »

Ya, give them a singularity so that the rom players will have to go back to romulan space to refuel after enery battle!

ActiveX · « **Reply #45 on:** January 22, 2003, 04:00:12 am »

Actually. this would solve the Warbird maneuverability problem...the QSD would have a negative mass, maybe negative 5000 or so, this would be interesting to test...hmm...and this is why Warbirds could outmaneuver most ships half its size...

LongTooth · « **Reply #46 on:** January 22, 2003, 04:48:24 am »

The quantum singularity is a black hole it does not need to be refuled or shut down
In fact it cant be shut down

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #47 on:** January 22, 2003, 04:59:05 am »

Good idea. That is the first step towards the greatly needed racial flavor...
And the Warbird could really use some more engine mass.

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #49 on:** January 22, 2003, 05:26:32 am »

Hmm... actually black holes are extremely massive, but it would be pretty useless to have a huge QSD instead of a warp core.

BTW not only warbirds are supposed to be powered by QSDs, in fact, the romulans don't use standard warp cores at all, only QSDs in every ship. That's the reason for them having hollow parts (I hink I read that somewhere...).

Maybe It would be fair to have a very efficient warp core (AKA QSD) in exchange for it being easily damaged (compared to what warp cores will be after the patch) or having a moderate chance of it destabilizing somehow.

Aenigma · « **Reply #50 on:** January 22, 2003, 06:15:23 am »

Black holes are indeed extremely massive, but we don't know if this mass is actually mass as we know it. Because of the extreme circumstances inside the singularity it could be energy as well. Actually mass and energy are connected.

Aenigma

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #51 on:** January 22, 2003, 06:47:39 am »

I fear this will lead into a scientific debate if this goes on hehe...

Even though we don't know what are the conditions of matter, energy, or both inside a black hole (there are some interesting theories though), this is, below the event horizon, we actually know that black holes act as extremely massive star bodies due to the gravitational disturbances they create. If they create a gravitational disturbance, regardless of the actual conditions of the black hole itself, it is logic to think that the source(?) that is creating the disturbance will affect everything about it, in this case, a ship using it as an energy source...or not...

Cleaven · « **Reply #52 on:** January 22, 2003, 07:07:22 am »

Black holes do not need much mass in a stellar sense, with their formation being possible for a star only a little bigger than our own Sol.

But a quantum singularity, if one actually existed, would not have mass on this order. It would be much smaller, having sufficient mass to produce the required spatial distortion to provide warp power and yet still be containable. Could gravitons be manipulated to negate mass? Well you already have gravity webs keeping Sulu's backside in his plastic chair while he is at the helm station and anti-grav units to move around very heavy (confused and self-destructing) space probes so the precident has been set.

ActiveX · « **Reply #53 on:** January 22, 2003, 07:54:36 am »

Actually, the supposed 'canon' approach to expalining QSDs is simple:

Since the actual mass of the Singularity is way too much for a ship to move, the Romulans use inertial dampeners to negate the mass effects of the singularity. This effect actually make the ship seems to be less in mass than the actual masses of the parts it is composed of. This is why a Warbird on the TV series can dance around a Galaxy...

So, I think all we need to change is the masses of the Rom cores to the reciprocal values...basically just use the same number, but make it negative...

Does this work? It makes the Roms more like the Roms...

Robb Stark · « **Reply #54 on:** January 22, 2003, 08:14:14 am »

How does it make the "Roms more like Roms?" All I'm seeing here, for practical purposes, is the idea that the mass of the warp cores for Romulans be reduced. You can say it's because of their Quantum Singularities if you like, or you can say it's because of a double cheeseburger in space - the practical result is the warp core mass is reduced.

The practical upshot is that Romulan ships would have more mass for thrusters and impulse. Faster, more maneuverable Romulans... is this what the game needs? I don't think so. Speed and maneuverability are supposed to be the Klingon advantages. Give those advantages to the Romulans, and we'll see even LESS racial diversity, not more.

ActiveX · « **Reply #55 on:** January 22, 2003, 08:20:06 am »

Oh did I mention that only large Romulans ships could even think about using a QSD? And isnt it the large Rommies ships that are horribly slow?

Whiplash · « **Reply #56 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:41:03 am »

The Rom singularity was their power core. It would be there in place of a warp core. I have no idea which would be more massive. Containing exploding antimatter takes some serious hardware. Containing a (lot of?) rapidly spinning micro-black-holes would take some serious hardware also. I don't think there is a justification for saying one is lighter or better than the other.

You could state that the Rom warp core is powered by a QSD rather than M-AM annihilation. Its a name change only. So my question is, What would you change to the way a warp core operates to give the Roms individual flavor (thats also not unbalancing)?

Speaking of cores, the Breen, if they ever appear, should get a warpcore power-dampening weapon. The only odd thing is it doesn't affect Klingon power cores. Don't know about Rom. They can't give them a weapon that only affected Feds. Would anyone play with it?

W.

NJAntman · « **Reply #58 on:** January 22, 2003, 09:51:48 am »

I don't care about the specifics. Just the thought of popping a Rom and watching the debris fall back into the spinning singularity! Haven't seen that since SFC1! (somewhere, think it was a bonus mission?) Granted the patch to include it better contain a better damage graphic or watching the Rom go pop would be short lived at short range.

762 · « **Reply #59 on:** January 22, 2003, 10:20:20 am »

Agreed. But when I blow up a Warbird it should trigger a massive phase transition which sucks up the entire sector into the point where it died.

Also, Fed ships should have their yogurt dispensers.

Tannhauser · « **Reply #60 on:** January 22, 2003, 10:33:25 am »

Here's a thought (two, actually):
1. There's no need to alter the mass of the Romulan engines. Instead, just give them more power. Perhaps one of the Romulan advantages should be the fact that their warp drives provide more power than the other races.
2. I believe the patch will alter the damage done by an exploding ship so that it is based on the level of the warp drive, or how much of it is still undamaged, or something like that. Well, simply double the damage for Romulans since they use an artificial quantum singularity.

theRomulan · « **Reply #61 on:** January 22, 2003, 12:07:05 pm »

Having flown Romulan quite a bit, they do not need more maneuverability. That's ridiculous. The Romulans can't have their cake and everyone else's too.

Romulans, contrary to popular belief, are far from inferior, or devoid of disadvantages.

1.) Cloaking device. Sure, it ain't so hot right now with the bugs and the ease of probes, but if you stay out of the person frontal view, keep distance, move position a lot, and actually decloak when to fire at appropriate times, then romulans are pretty powerful.

2.) Plasma torpedoes, despite this so called 'horrid' hit rate, actually does hit quite a bit, and does a good deal of damage. The truth is, it's not a long range weapon meant to be fired at even light angular velocities. Don't fire unless you know your shot is pretty much dead on, or you get a tractor to bring velocity to zero. Don't fire while at point blank range, that hikes velocity up to 100. Don't fire when you're still turning. Etc. etc. etc.

3.) Disruptors recharge rate is not the best, but the damage is pretty decent, especially if you overload.

Giving roms, especially their bigger ships like the warbird, more maneuverability is crazy. We'd be giving them the most powerful heavy weapon in the game, along with a nice cloaking device, and then the ability to run circles around their opponents to boot. That's asking for trouble. Warbird has only three heavy hardpoints. Yes, and there's a reason for that. You can load it up with heavy plasma if you wanted. That's incredible crunch power, I hope no one gets hit with that. If they had anymore heavy weapons, we'd all be screaming for our lives. Add on a cloaking device to escape our aim and appear behind us. No, the romulans are just fine, thank you.

Aenigma · « **Reply #62 on:** January 22, 2003, 12:51:52 pm »

......................................You just spread confidential information! The Tal Shiar will have you executed for this!

Well, i still believe that Romulans should get a qs-drive besides the warpcores, and NO i'm not proposing to give them a big bonus. Does anyone read the beginning of a post?

It will give some 1400 (or less should it be more balanced) extra to spend on engine space, a lvl 5 engine and a lvl 5 thruster (total mass 1850) are the best you can fit to it with a warpcore X. With just 1400 extra mass you can get only VII both, but it will still be not too maneouvrable or fast, at least not as much as klingons. It is stated that:

Romulans have the weakest armor. Their ships are build for surprise attacks, and are rather fragile. www.strategyplanet.com/sfc/sfc3/info_rom_ships.shtml

They are build for surprise attacks, but if you have to warp to surprise someone (get behind one without being detected), you'll end up dead if they have anti-cloak on-line.

Aenigma

Thanos1 · « **Reply #64 on:** January 22, 2003, 01:56:26 pm »

Actually, Robb Stark (hey nice name btw, another Martin fan:D), the Warbird has THREE heavy hardpoints, all facing forward. The raptor has four, with one facing rear.

The above, combined with the fact that the warbird is slower, heavier, needs more power and has only one more primary hardpoint (360 arc, but doesn't mean much when you are a Rom) than the Raptor, makes me forget about the Warbird altogether and stick with the BCH.

-suleo

Cmdr. Krotz · « **Reply #65 on:** January 22, 2003, 01:56:37 pm »

Roms are going to be plenty competitive when the official patch is finally released- probes being fixed makes cloaking much more viable, and plasmas that bat 3 for 3 against tractored targets (or can even do so at ranges up to 20+, sometimes) are plentiful improvements enough, just wait and see...

There isn't really any special ST reason to believe quantum singularity drives are particularly better than standard warp drives, if anything, they are meant to represent romulan ingenuity in overcoming a problem that severely hindered their ability to become major players in the ST universe. In SFC1&2 manuals, it alludes to the RSE being resource-poor; in old, mostly forgotten, pre-ST:NG lore, dilithium was extremely scarce in the RSE, enough so that while the romulans could certainly design effective warp drives, they were SOL when it came to production, which made getting klingon ships an advantage when the rom/klingon alliance was formed. The QSD (didn't they have SFC1 mssions involving roms experiementing w/ QSDs, I almost think I vaguely remember such a thing, could just be my imagination though), rather than representing an inherently superior system, is instead an alternative technology designed by the romulans to get around dilithium supply problems...it's already assumed in the game that roms have QSDs powering their warp drives, in-lieu of the matter/antimatter power systems of other races (as demonstrated when roms sabotage their QSDs in one of the last missions of the SFC3 fed campaign).

EagleEye · « **Reply #68 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:23:52 pm »

It is unfortunate that we cannot all come to the conclusion that the Romulan empire is at a disadvantage when compiared to other races.

I see no way, logicly, that any person looking at the situation from an objective position could come to any other. I feel that the romulans are not what they should be. I understand that is is difficult to remove yourself from your current favorate race and be objective, but for the purposes of this discusion it would be greatly appreciated.

As for my take on the situation, I must concur with all who have posted in favor of giving the romulans a better edge in warp core mass-to-power ratio.

Thanos1 · « **Reply #69 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:32:28 pm »

Oh, my bad then; I don't have the beta patch. But still, given the current state of affairs, the Raptor is superior. I of course wouldn't mind at all the forthcoming changes :}.
And on the issue of overloading: My raptor config (3HPlas, 4Diz2S, 1AMM, Warp9) can o/l the plasma while keeping everything else at nominal (green) power. And after I unload plasma, I can o/l diz and keep them that way until plasma reloads (or cloak and o/l shields). Works quite effectively, but you have to be fast on those sliders.
Which brings me to a final observation: Why-oh-why could they not have implemented a 'locking' slider or have some slider pre-sets. I mean, a 10 year-old game (xwing) had those...

-suleo

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #70 on:** January 22, 2003, 02:44:32 pm »

Where do I get that beta patch?

Cmdr. Krotz · « **Reply #71 on:** January 22, 2003, 03:10:44 pm »

Those power sliders really do need some work- it's bad enough the way it doesn't always want to give nominal power to all primaries, heavies, and shields, from the get-go (and annoyance common to one playing klingons), instead prefering to overload a couple k-photons and underpower the dizzies...given the way it really seems one needs to continually shift power around to get the most out of rom weapons, I would certainly applaud the addition of some power allocation presets (a definite feature-request for after the bugs are mostly purged from the game).

Sorry SoT, the beta patch was originally released as a public beta, to get some much requested fixes in people's hand right away, but that went against Activision policies (they seem to like to keep the number of total patches low, and as inclusive of fixes as possible, probably to avoid the image of distributing broken games), so it was recalled, so if you didn't get it, you probably won't. As far as future beta patches (there's enough stuff still needing work that I wouldn't be suprised if another beta will be available to test before the official release is ready), Mark Pfeiffer, the Taldren QA guy, posted that Activision gave them permission to take on quite a few testers, if you are interested, you should send an e-mail to Mark@taldren.com, with something about wanting to be a "visioneer" in the subject line (visioneer is a reference to Activision's external beta testing program, from what I recall). Hope that helps.

Cmdr. Krotz the Thoughtful Klingon-in-Exilie

Tremok · « **Reply #73 on:** January 22, 2003, 07:32:03 pm »

Wouldn't a Q-WarpCore be infinite power, theorically?

Anyway, I don't know where you people get the nimble Warbird info. Everwhere I look I find that the WB is a bruiser. It doesn't rely on nimbleness but its fly right up to your face and pounds you into quite forcefully into hell with a plasma-laden Thors Hammer.

ActiveX · « **Reply #75 on:** January 22, 2003, 08:30:47 pm »

the ship wasnt very small, wasnt it almost the size of Ent-D?

Son of Technobabble · « **Reply #78 on:** January 23, 2003, 08:32:20 am »

I guess we'll have to wait until the patch is out to see the new engine masses in romulan ships, BUT I don't think that will fix the lack of "racial flavor" anyway...

Tulmahk · « **Reply #81 on:** January 23, 2003, 04:39:03 pm »

Remiak,

Going over your numbers agian, I see what you're doing with them now.

And yes, I'm forced to agree with you. You are absolutely right. The Feds do have the best Warp cores overall, followed by Klingons (for their smaller ships, anyway) and then last, as usual, the Roms.

Would you agree that Romulan players who use the Warbird should be using a Warp IX core? That's the conclusion I've come to, and it's the stragegy that I always use, since I'm an unapologetic Warbird flyer.

Cleaven · « **Reply #84 on:** January 23, 2003, 08:00:40 pm »

When the game first came out and people started crunching the numbers it was noted that the Warp 9 efficiency was probably the result of a typo because it didn't fit with the rest of the warp cores in a smoother way. 9,9,-5,10 and 1,-1,-8,5 for the Fed and Klingon ratios is inconsistent at the ninth position.

Aenigma · « **Reply #85 on:** January 24, 2003, 12:53:50 am »

So what do suggested, make the warpcore heavier and less powerful to compenstate for the other races. Now that would be a great idea

The difficulty with the warbird is that you can have
a: a very slow ship with powerful weapons
or b: a very fast ship (±50) with puny weapons (that's why my latest outfit carries no heavy-plasmas, they cost just too much energy for my warpcore IX, but instead has three AM-Minelayers, which are quite nasty in 1v1, especially with this speed).

Aenigma
In The Service of The Empire

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Topic: Give Romulans a quantum singularity (Read 21347 times)