Topic: EAW or OP, which is better when fully patched?

[FireSoul]

However, continued work will ensure OP's place in the future. With any luck, it will prove to the D2 community that OP is indeed viable.

.. hm.. especially if they play on EAW server for so long that another OP patch would come out and fix all the rest of the issues. That probably won't happen, but it's an interesting thought.

[Dogmatix!]

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I think there is a rather easy way to settle this point.  Sales.  How many copies of EAW were sold vs OP.  I suspect OP sales were low and encompassed a larger fraction of novices who rarely played it and dumped it considering the low player base for OP.  I myself bought OP after having a friend's install of EAW and SFC1 purchased with my own money on my machine for a while which I had gotten out of.  I stopped playing OP altogether for just the reasons above, no players, no dyna, X ships BS.

While OP might be "better" because it has more "stuff", I still don't think it has a player base especially if sales were low and new copies are hard to come by.  Why hunt around for OP when you already have EAW fully patched with working dyna and consistent player base?

Be that as it may, what has OP really got to offer?  Phaser arcs?  New ships?  Supposed stability?  Oh, yes!  Pirates!  Don't think the whole pirate thing has enough umph, enough meaningful context to be compelling.  Look at player race preferences.  Most played races are TOS races with feds leading substantially. Throw in some pirates no one has ever heard outside of SFB  that are not fully SFB implemented (custumization of ships, etc) and you have a recipe for a yawn.

Doesn't seem like enough to entice me to switch nor most people who have EAW and are comfortable with it.   BTW are magic photons still in effect in OP?

Fact is Taldren shot itself in the foot with OP.  While they may have had the best intentions, the fiasco ruined any transition to OP.  

Hence the reason why I and a few other has been trying to increase sales of OP by offering free copies of OP to anyone who wants one with the proviso that they get on OP D2 and help make it grow any way they can.  To date, I've sent out four free copies.

The OP Dyna is now, a Cleaven says, as good as EAW's.  OP has more features, weapons, ships, race slots, etc.  That makes it the better platform for future growth.  

All OP needs is a commitment from the campaign server groups and the people who play on those cmapaigns to give OP a chance by putting on and playing in a big OP campaign.  I expect SFC2.NET to now look towards OP's dyna as a viable platform.  I hope we will have the cooperation of other groups and individuals moving forward.

I have always been on record as saying OP is potentially the better product, but EAW is more fun because of the far larger player base.  Most of the best dyna campaigns have been on EAW's dyna, but that isn't to say there hasn't been several, VERY COOL campaigns on OP's dyna...and that was before it had been patched up to EAW's specs.  The Triangle series, the Rook's Tavern series...the first two editions in the Slave Girls series.  All wonderful, fun, competitive, long-lived campaigns...and all on OP D2.


Look...most people don't like Taldren's implementation of x-tech.  That is no reason to steer clear of OP.  Most cmpaigns never get to the Advanced Era (unless they start there or close) and any smart campaign author is going to do something that mitigates the x-ships' effect or just not even make them available.  Frankly, x-tech on x-tech battles are quite fun, so what's the fuss?  FireSoul's OP Refit shiplist (quickly becoming THE shiplist for OP dynaplay) takes care of the Taldren X-tech problem by putting in SFB-style x-ships.  This is still being tested, but early results are encouraging.  I found none of the X-ships that I flew or flew against to be anywhere near OTT.  However, the jury is definitely still out and there is work to be done.


Granted, everyone's mileage may vary, but I've always seen more stability on OP dyna servers.  I think the Dyna community would do itself a big favor by getting in there and supporting the OP dyna platform.


I just don't see how anyone can argue that the future of SFC2 D2 isn't (or at least, shouldn't be) on the OP platform.  EAW simply doesn't have anything that OP lacks.  SQL doesn't even enter into the mix for me because none has proven to me that SQL can handle the stress of a big campaign server.  Even now, all big EAW campaigns are run with flatfile databases.


I will continue to support both flavors since both products have a following.  However, I will continue also to try and steer folks towards OP.


 

[FireSoul]

That was well formulated, dogmatix. Very well said.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yes, to be correct, the SFB, or X1 ships in OP are pretty close to SFB specs in most cases, but the X2 ships, the "Taldren X ships" are total abortions. They look like the things you used to make in SFB groups for a team of ships to attack.

Silly indeed. Keep it up FS, you really oughta get PAID for the massive amount of work you do and the even LARGER amount of crap you take for doing it!

HAND!
 

[FireSoul]

Well..

.. I *LIKE* this game. .. and I'm hoping I get every possible chance to make it better. You can bet that if I end up making a difference, I got paid in a different way.

.. and trust me on this: SFC:OP's not dead. Not by far. The work continues so that playtime becomes better.

-- Luc

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, EAW IS dead for me, has been since about 1 minute prior to the installation of OP, since I deleted EAW for an identical, but improved game.

Stand-alone expansion, HAH!

HAND!
 

[Scipio_66]

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Granted, everyone's mileage may vary, but I've always seen more stability on OP dyna servers.  I think the Dyna community would do itself a big favor by getting in there and supporting the OP dyna platform.
 

I'm willing to believe this is true for you, but it hasn't been for me.  My first question on my first OP dyna match was, "Is this much lag normal?"  My second was, "no really, I'm serious.  Stop laughing.  Is this much lag normal for OP?"

I'll grant you the issue has gotten better since OP standard backed off from that rediculous default speed of 9, but the difference in lag and CTD's is still immediately noticeable to me.  <shrug>

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 OP [dyna] has more ...  race slots, etc.

Serious question here.  The above is a reason many people quote for pefering the OP dyna, but is it true?  My understanding is that you can't get more than 8 races on the imperial or the pirate map, and the map interaction bugs still exist.  (At least I have never been able to when experimenting with the OP D2 package.)  Is there any hope that the upcoming D2 patch for OP will address the map interaction bugs?

-S'Cipio

 

[FireSoul]

It happens that I need info on those exact bugs. I think these were posted in the OLD forums at some point, but ..

.. anyways, like in the D2 Experiences forum for the thread that's asking for data.

-- Luc

[Dogmatix!]

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Granted, everyone's mileage may vary, but I've always seen more stability on OP dyna servers.  I think the Dyna community would do itself a big favor by getting in there and supporting the OP dyna platform.
 

I'm willing to believe this is true for you, but it hasn't been for me.  My first question on my first OP dyna match was, "Is this much lag normal?"  My second was, "no really, I'm serious.  Stop laughing.  Is this much lag normal for OP?"

I'll grant you the issue has gotten better since OP standard backed off from that rediculous default speed of 9, but the difference in lag and CTD's is still immediately noticeable to me.  <shrug>

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 OP [dyna] has more ...  race slots, etc.

Serious question here.  The above is a reason many people quote for pefering the OP dyna, but is it true?  My understanding is that you can't get more than 8 races on the imperial or the pirate map, and the map interaction bugs still exist.  (At least I have never been able to when experimenting with the OP D2 package.)  Is there any hope that the upcoming D2 patch for OP will address the map interaction bugs?

-S'Cipio

 

Yes, S'Cipio...as I was trying to say, I assume that there are exceptions to the general rule that OP tends to be more stable in multi-player than EAW.  Given there's a new patch, you may wish to give it another try and see if things have gotten better for you.  In NO CASE have I personally found stability on OP to be any worse than EAW and EAW has the benefit of a few more patches, if I'm not mistaken.

As for your second question, I freely admit that absent a lot of hard work testng server settings prior to an OP campaign going live, you can end up with problems caused by pirates abd the cartel map.  Rook's Tavern 3 managed to be an extrmemely fun campaign with no map interaction problems that I remember AND it had active pirate cartels.  It is possible, so yes, it is true.  Is it difficult to get things configured properly?  I guess so, because I haven't seen too many poeple accomplish it.

Race slot aren't all OP has more of.  It has more ship slots in the shiplist and It has more weapon types.  This means increased modability.  That's a good thing.

I have no idea what is or isn't planned in terms of future OP patches.  I wouldn't hold my breath for another one, that's for sure.  


 

[FireSoul]

You do realize, now that it is know there is going to be another patch, that people's opinions may have to change on this subject?  Once the OP patch is out, I'll let people decide for themselves what they think is best, tho.

-- Luc

[Julin Eurthyr]

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Yes, S'Cipio...as I was trying to say, I assume that there are exceptions to the general rule that OP tends to be more stable in multi-player than EAW.  Given there's a new patch, you may wish to give it another try and see if things have gotten better for you.  In NO CASE have I personally found stability on OP to be any worse than EAW and EAW has the benefit of a few more patches, if I'm not mistaken.

As for your second question, I freely admit that absent a lot of hard work testng server settings prior to an OP campaign going live, you can end up with problems caused by pirates abd the cartel map.  Rook's Tavern 3 managed to be an extrmemely fun campaign with no map interaction problems that I remember AND it had active pirate cartels.  It is possible, so yes, it is true.  Is it difficult to get things configured properly?  I guess so, because I haven't seen too many poeple accomplish it.

Race slot aren't all OP has more of.  It has more ship slots in the shiplist and It has more weapon types.  This means increased modability.  That's a good thing.

I have no idea what is or isn't planned in terms of future OP patches.  I wouldn't hold my breath for another one, that's for sure.  

Here's my take on the 2 major OP campaigns I've played:

Rooks Tavern 3.  My first major campaign & my first RM job.  Biggest issue was the (perceived) ability of the "Organian Forces", ISC / Mirak / Syndicate cartel, to take and hold conquered space, while the Alliance / Coalition, with no (maybe a few) pirate players were restricted to not being able to raise DV above the hex flip default (without placing lots of bases).
Major Lessons learned that campaign:  Cannot run map with all one pirate cartel allied to everyone.  Started to see and identify other cartel / hex DV issues.  

Slave Girls 2.  Was an Alliance SM (server moderator, initially was not tied to races.  I picked Fed as the Coalition slots were filling up quickly and nobody took the Alliance side... ).  Server was set up where each player had both an empire & pirate account, took care of the hex flipping issues somewhat (needed to send pirate players to soften up an area before the empires swiped it / raised the DV), but was frustrating in that the cartel DVs were hidden by the empire ones...

The speed bug (where Feds & pirates could still jack the game speed up / down at will) did major damage to both servers, and my willingness to play on other OP servers.

After those 2 servers, where players flagrantly speed-bugged me despite my SM tag, I finally decided to play EAW D2, and have been waiting (eagerly) for the dust to settle on OP and the chance to get back in the action there.  Even if they do decide to put my I-torps to the same one-per-turn standard now in EAW...

I do still play OP, single player and LAN games.  I haven't played a single SP EAW game since the EAW campaigns were recompiled.  

[FireSoul]

Then I hope you will try OP again after the next patch. The speed bug has been squashed in 2538. Other D2 bugs are being squashed for this next patch. OP will be be-au-ti-ful after this.

-- Luc

[FireSoul]

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I do still play OP, single player and LAN games. I haven't played a single SP EAW game since the EAW campaigns were recompiled.

Oh. You're welcomed. Then I am glad I took the time to debug them and make sure it all works.
-- Luc

[Wolf2525]

After reading all this, I'm really glad I was able to locate a copy.  I really don't know why I didn't buy it when it first came out.  I kinda regret that now, especially with how much fun EAW has become since I dusted it off.  Still haven't played much online yet, with either EAW or SFCIII, but have been having an absolute blast even in the single player campaigns.

[Cleaven]

It would be cool to create a simple way to install the new modded D2 missions into the the single player EAW for OP campaigns, esp the ones using the config files. There are a lot of people who have never experienced them because editing .gf files is not their cup of tea.

<I don't mean as part of the patch>  

[mathcubeguy]

Im going to install one right now since my computer is crapping out on letting me play 3 without having to wait ten minutes for my mouse to move across the screen...

Which of the SFC 2 games works best when fully up to date?

[Tommy20]

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without having to wait ten minutes for my mouse to move across the screen...

when this happens to me i usually change the batteries in my cordless mouse  

p.s that is if u have a cordless one  

[Scipio_66]

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Im going to install one right now since my computer is crapping out on letting me play 3 without having to wait ten minutes for my mouse to move across the screen...

Which of the SFC 2 games works best when fully up to date?  

That would be EAW.  Same as it has ever been.  

-S'Cipio

[FireSoul]

currently, for D2 online play, EAW has SQL while OP doesn't.. but otherwise it seems just about equal ..

.. as for GSA play, I really.. *REALLY* wonder why people insist on playing EAW over OP. Really.. What the hell are you guys doing over there in that other room/channel? Hrm?!?
OP's more stable, and has more features.

-- Luc

[Scipio_66]

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currently, for D2 online play, EAW has SQL while OP doesn't.. but otherwise it seems just about equal ..

.. as for GSA play, I really.. *REALLY* wonder why people insist on playing EAW over OP. Really.. What the hell are you guys doing over there in that other room/channel? Hrm?!?
OP's more stable, and has more features.

-- Luc  

I've always found OP to be less stable and more prone to lag.  <shrug>

I know EAW has SQL support, but I'm not aware of anyone using it for a big public server.  The current SG3 campaign is using the flatfile because SQL doesn't seem to like having a lot of players on at once.  Hopefully admins are still trying to solve this.  What EAW truly has is a dynaverse and a map that work with less bugs and fewer admin headaches.  And fewer outside-of-the-source material features that no one wanted anyway.  

-S'Cipio