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#### E_Look

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##### PC Troubleshooting...
« on: May 11, 2005, 04:48:31 pm »
A computer this morning won't boot and gives a repeating series of 3 beeps.  It is an AMD on a MSI mobo.

What does 3 beeps mean?

Edited Via E_Looks Private Message. Please Use this  thread for PC trobleshooting, No matter how many Beeps.

Stephen
« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 01:47:59 am by Stephen, AKA Sirgodhand Jr. »

#### Iceman

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #1 on: May 11, 2005, 05:40:50 pm »
I hate to state the obvious, but read the manual. Check the troubleshooting section, it'll most likely tell you.

EDIT: The motherboard manual, that is.
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#### Darth Sidious

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2005, 06:09:19 pm »
Motherboard manual on that one.

Quick guesses:

Could also check on net for the specific make/model of motherboard.

Also, pay attentiion to the length and timing of the beeps - there IS a difference, just like in morse code.

#### Javora

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2005, 06:30:01 pm »
Code: [Select]
                         Computer Error Beep CodesBeep Code:                                    Description of Problem:No Beeps                                     Short, No power, Bad CPU/MB, Loose PeripheralsOne Beep                                    Everything is normal and Computer POSTed fineTwo Beeps                                   POST/CMOS ErrorOne Long Beep, One Short Beep         Motherboard ProblemOne Long Beep, Two Short Beeps         Video ProblemOne Long Beep, Three Short Beeps Video ProblemThree Long Beeps                         Keyboard ErrorRepeated Long Beeps                       Memory ErrorContinuous Hi-Lo Beeps CPU Overheating
Here is a standard list that I found a while back while troubleshooting someone else's PC.  From the list my best guess is a faulty keyboard.  Are you using a USB keyboard or had the keyboard disconnected lately?  If you have a keyboard that you know works, plug it in and see if the problem goes away.  It's simple enough to try and if that doesn't solve the problem at least you are not out any cash.  Hope this helps.

#### Dash Jones

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2005, 08:45:19 pm »
Quick troubleshooting...

Does it even boot?

First, make sure power is plugged in to both computer, monitor, and power socket as well as making sure the monitor and computer are connected in a way they can exchange information

Second, make sure the mouse and keyboard work...try another just to be certain it isn't the socket.

Third, opening the computer, make sure all the RAM, cords, and cards are plugged in snuggly into their appropriate sockets...also exam RAM see if it looks damaged

And now the bad news...turn it on...listen for clicks.  If no clicks...you might be in luck, if you hear one, even slight...it means your hard drive died.  That happened to me once...stunk to high heaven, I think that one had 3 beeps as well.

Even worse, if it doesn't even boot period, it could be a motherboard problem...to see if that is what is occurring, try to get to Bios.

The best way to get to Bios is to do it as the computer starts up...if you can't get to Bios, that's usually a really bad indication of either your powerbox is dead, your power supply is somehow cut off, OR, your motherboard died.

Before thinking it is definately your motherboard, MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN your computer monitor is hooked up to your computer.  If your computer has lights on...but nothing on the monitor, your computer might be fine, your monitor might not be.

However, determining whether it is your power or the motherboard without actually being there is rather tough to do.

Also, reverify that your keyboard actually works.  It's rather hard to press alt f8 or whichever way you are accessing bios if your keyboard isn't working.

Now if you can get to Bios, you are scotchfree.  In Bios, you can see what the computer sees, and what your computer says is dead.  If it can't see your RAM, it's a good indication that's what died, or if your hard drive doesn't register (like what happened to me once) that's also a good sign.

However, before panic, remember, check to make sure it's not something simple like keyboard, mouse, or power problems.  Be a shame to replace a motherboard or harddrive when one only had to plug in the keyboard.  Most likely it's going to be a keyboard or mouse problem...especially if it gets past the opening screen, but then has a little not about not seeing it, and several beeps.

According to the list Javora posted, it's going to be either a  keyboard or Video problem.  So check to make sure your card is working (should default to generic drivers I'd imagine if you have a backup card or anything and enable it I'd imagine).  Key thing is to see if the light on your computer is lit and then use the beep code.
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#### IAF Lyrkiller

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2005, 10:54:31 am »
I guess no one needs my help.

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#### Sethan

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2005, 12:51:42 pm »
A computer this morning won't boot and gives a repeating series of 3 beeps.  It is an AMD on a MSI mobo.

What does 3 beeps mean?

The beep codes are dependent on the BIOS in the motherboard.

MSI uses both AMI and AWARD BIOS, each of which has different beep codes.

From MSI's web site:

Verify POST beep codes
Continues beeps or 1long 2short beeps = possible memory error
• Try re-seating memory or test with different memory
1long 2short or 8short beeps = possible video card problem
• Try re-seating video card, test system with known good video card
High/Low tone (siren sound)= CPU is overheating.
• Verify that CPU heatsink is properly installed and power connected

AMI Beep Code

Deep Code         Description
1 short         DRAMS refresh failure
2 short         Parity circuit failure
3 short         Base 64k RAM failure
4 short         System timer failure
5 short         Process failure
6 short         Keyboard controller Gate A20 error
7 short         Virtual mode exception error
8 short         Display memory Read/Write test failure
9 short         ROM BIOS checksum failure
10 short         CMOS shutdown Read/Write error
11 short         Cache Memory error
1 long, 3 short         Conventional/Extended memory failure
1 long, 8 short         Display/Retrace test failed

AWARD Beep Code

Deep Code         Description
1 Long, 2 Short    A video error has occurred and the BIOS cannot intialize the video screen to display any additional information
Any other beep(s)    RAM problem
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#### The Bar-Abbas Anomaly

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2005, 12:54:23 pm »
A computer this morning won't boot and gives a repeating series of 3 beeps.  It is an AMD on a MSI mobo.

What does 3 beeps mean?

That CaptStumpy is backing up?    ???

But seriously, I assume you mean that the unit will not POST at all and the display does not come up.  There are really only four probable causes for beeping with no display:

1.  RAM problem.  Either bad or flakey chips, not seated securely in the socket, or just the wrong flavor for that mainboard if you're upgraded/replaced/swapped them recently.

2.  Video card problem.  Bad card or not seated securely in the slot.  If you moved the PC recently it may have been jarred loose.

3.  CPU problem.  Unlikely, unless you overclocked it or fiddled with the CPU fan recently, but it's a possibility.  If it's a P-II or P-III it may be in a big wide slot and could have been jarred loose like the video card.  Check to see if it's fan is running.

4.  Motherboard failure.  Time to upgrade.  This is actually more likely than a CPU failure, but less so than the RAM or Video card.

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#### Darth Sidious

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2005, 01:02:24 pm »
There should be a 'Most Useful Information You Never Want to Have to Use' sticky for things like this.

Great info!

#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2005, 02:26:00 pm »
As the thread starter, I hereby officially request a sticky for this thread  in the next post, I'll say why.

#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2005, 02:39:08 pm »
And the reason:

I am telling you right now from the computer that was down!!  My coworkers here thank you all!

And, I believe it was the stick of RAM that was loose:  upon reading all your posts, and even before that, I took off and reconnected tightly all the signal and power cabling to all the peripherals, as the HD, CDROM, floppy, Zip, etc. and still no go.  Again, after reading your replies, I removed the RAM and got exactly the same symptoms, namely the three beeps and no POST.  So I popped it back in making sure it was tight, and well, voila!

Thank you all again,

#### Sirgod

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2005, 05:06:59 pm »
Consider It done Stickied guys. I'm sure we can fill this post up with all kinds of usefull tech help/tips.

Stephen
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#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2005, 10:25:23 pm »
Let me then open the stickied phase of this thread with another question.  This one deals with a comp at home I just put together and is not even being used yet.

I based it on the Barton core AMD Athlon XP 2500+, with a 333 MHz FSB, with a 1.833 GHz clockspeed.

But when I built it, the BIOS AND WinXP reads it as only running at 1.1 GHz and the FSB rate is 100 MHz.  I can't figure out what's up with that or how I can remedy this...

... or is the chip running as advertised, only the mobo is reading it wrong?

#### manitoba1073

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2005, 02:02:36 am »
hey E , when u reboot it next time u'll have to set the correct speed on the cpu in the bios. when u enter the bios its in the section of CPU FSB CLOCK part.  try setting it at 166MHZ go from there. not sure what the values should be for ur processor but thats what the prob is.  hope it helps

#### The Bar-Abbas Anomaly

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2005, 10:04:16 am »
Let me then open the stickied phase of this thread with another question.  This one deals with a comp at home I just put together and is not even being used yet.

I based it on the Barton core AMD Athlon XP 2500+, with a 333 MHz FSB, with a 1.833 GHz clockspeed.

But when I built it, the BIOS AND WinXP reads it as only running at 1.1 GHz and the FSB rate is 100 MHz.  I can't figure out what's up with that or how I can remedy this...

... or is the chip running as advertised, only the mobo is reading it wrong?

Your motherboard is not reading it wrong, it's probably set wrong.  You're gonna have to go into the BIOS and tell it to run the FSB at 166Mhz, rather than 100.  The slower speed is a default.

Your CPU multiplier for that chip is 5.5.  The 100Mhz number in your BIOS is doubled to get the FSB frequency, which is then 200Mhz.  200Mhz x 5.5 = 1.1Ghz, which is what you're seeing.

If you set your mainboard to 166Mhz, that doubled is 333Mhz FSB.  333Mhz x 5.5 = 1.833Ghz, which is what you want to see.

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#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2005, 10:38:15 am »
Ah, so!

Just wondering, why is the FSB doubled and why is there a multiplier?  I'm sure if I spent four hours on the 'Net, I'll find out, but that doesn't look so inviting...

#### Sirgod

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2005, 10:46:33 am »
IIRC, I believe It deals with the Voltage of the Processor and MB talking to each other. Someone may be along to correct me though.

Stephen
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#### Death_Merchant

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2005, 01:57:52 pm »
A computer this morning won't boot and gives a repeating series of 3 beeps.  It is an AMD on a MSI mobo.

What does 3 beeps mean?
Beep 2: "a"
Beep 3: "Mac"

Listen to it over and over E, you'll start to hear it....

DM The-Mac-Wiseguy
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#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2005, 03:58:14 pm »
Ay ya.  The only Mac I can get into has special sauce, lettuce, cheese, onions, pickles on a sesame seed bun.

E_Look the still hungry

Seriously, I've used other people's Macs, but never really liked them all that much; I think it's just the way each type is used, or how the designers and marketers intended them to be used.

As to the other thing, since this PC is a gift for my younger one, I've got to wait until he zonks for the night before I can pull it out and change the FSB setting... I think it's rather cool- blue basic Raidmax box with side window, I switched the fans that came with it on the side panel to two glowy blue LED Cooler Masters, and the MGE 400 W ps (unbeknownst to me until I actually took it out of the box to install!) has a blue LED fan, internally AND externally.

I built a similar one for my older one, but in green.  We dubbed it "The Borg Cube" since it was this green glowy box.  I suppose we can call this one "Ent-D" or some such nonsense!  Hey, they fight all the time anyway.

To all: forgive this OT post in an OT thread in an OT forum.  I'd love for this thread to remain a tech help line for us folks on these boards.  So far everyone here has come through for me.

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2005, 05:12:12 pm »
Ah, so!

Just wondering, why is the FSB doubled and why is there a multiplier?  I'm sure if I spent four hours on the 'Net, I'll find out, but that doesn't look so inviting...

DDR memory.  DDR = Double Data Rate.  Your 333 FSB is really half that but functions as if it is 333 because the DDR RAM can be accessed twice each clock cycle.

The speed problem you are having is because most if not all chipsets for Athlons will in the event of a major crash will default to the slowest memory speed.  You then need to reset it in the BIOS back to the full speed, in this case to 166.  It will also do that if you change the processor.  Since this is the initial construction of the machine it defaults to the slowest speed until you tell it what speed you actually use.

Since you just assembled the system you should go through the Motherboard manual and set all the options to your requirements.  If you are not using the old serial and parrallel ports for example you may wish to disble them in the BIOS to allow the IRQs (which are relatively high priorty IRQs)  to be used for more important devices that would otherwise be forced to lower priority IRQs.
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#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #20 on: May 13, 2005, 08:55:50 pm »
Ah, so!

Just wondering, why is the FSB doubled and why is there a multiplier?  I'm sure if I spent four hours on the 'Net, I'll find out, but that doesn't look so inviting...

Quote
DDR memory.  DDR = Double Data Rate.  Your 333 FSB is really half that but functions as if it is 333 because the DDR RAM can be accessed twice each clock cycle.

Thank you... very much, actually, as I knew that!  Really!  What was I thinking??  There are days...

Quote
Since you just assembled the system you should go through the Motherboard manual and set all the options to your requirements.  If you are not using the old serial and parrallel ports for example you may wish to disble them in the BIOS to allow the IRQs (which are relatively high priorty IRQs)  to be used for more important devices that would otherwise be forced to lower priority IRQs.

That I DIDN'T know!  But I have this nagging worry that as soon as I do that, some use for either port will come up.  I guess this is due to the necessity to connect printers, scanners, external drives, etc., to the available parallel and serial ports.  But this is something I will seriously consider.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2005, 11:49:20 pm by E_Look »

#### toasty0

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #21 on: May 13, 2005, 09:31:27 pm »
Is there a reason this thread is pinned?

Jerry
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#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2005, 09:42:43 pm »
Are you objecting?

#### toasty0

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2005, 01:20:24 am »
Are you objecting?

Does asking equate to objection or curiosity?

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#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2005, 01:28:17 am »
Heh.  You're crustier than me.  (I wouldn't consider this a desirable condition!    )

Seriously, two or three of us on the thread, and that includes myself and the mod who stickied it, thought it may be a good source of basic PC tech questions and troubleshooting for those of us who are not PC, general computer, systems, or programming professionals, or engineers.

Shoot, I even forgot that DDR meant DOUBLE data rate and was somewhat confounded for a couple of days, until Barabbas and several other folk straightened me out.

I think this is going to be quite a handy reference or help resource for more than just a few of us.

Given your expert background, please, do contribute to relieving others' computer miseries.

Do you think I should rename the thread to more accurately reflect its intentions?

#### toasty0

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2005, 01:35:58 am »
Tough call, imho. I'm concerned that we'll get pin-clutter like some other forums that require a page scroll because the first 20 subjects are pinned and inactive threads.

Otoh, if so many other members and at least one mod (super member?) feel it is warranted whom am I to disagree, right?

Jerry
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#### E_Look

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2005, 12:39:44 am »
Because of this thread, I went back and checked the BIOS of my own computer.  But I forgot that it is a Athlon 64 3000+ (socket 754) based system: the multiplier is locked on these CPUs... just as well in my case, as I'm not an overclocker, and the native 2.0 GHz +/- 10% is way good enough for me, and really, many others.

But that's not what I wanted to post about.  In so doing, I went through all the headings in my BIOS menu again and in the one colloquially, but aptly, named, "PC Health", I saw that my CPU temperature was around 53 C or so, and the system (case insides) temp around 35 C.  However, usually of late, in Windows (XP), the motherboard utility reports the chip temp as 60-61 C and the system temp around 44 C.  Is this due to each program (BIOS firmware one as opposed to the mobo software one) using a different SENSING technique or CALCULATION technique?

If the CPU temp is really around 55 C instead of 60 C, I am going to postpone my planned redrilling of my case to put in yet another fan (a third system fan, or move one of them which seems to be doing nothing where it is), as I am skittish about spraying metal dust all over all my installed components.

If it is really around 60 C, I just might go and cover the insides with plastic or something and drill another hole on top of the case.

(Only partly tongue-in-cheek: maybe all I have to do is uninstall some Norton software components; they ARE somewhat invasive and as such, most likely uses lots of clock cycles.  I think I might want to keep the Norton Utilities, though Symantec has stripped to bare bones and really are sort of redundant, given the scandisk, defrag, system restore, and system info functions now available in most varieties of Windows... )

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: What does THREE BEEPS in nonbooting PC mean?
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2005, 07:16:26 am »
However, usually of late, in Windows (XP), the motherboard utility reports the chip temp as 60-61 C and the system temp around 44 C.  Is this due to each program (BIOS firmware one as opposed to the mobo software one) using a different SENSING technique or CALCULATION technique?

The thermocouple used to read the temperature is not directly against the CPU so there is an "offset value" used to correct for the distance of the probe from the CPU.  If the BIOS uses one offset value and the software uses another then they will disagree.
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#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2005, 07:15:33 pm »
Boy, I'd like to know the proximity, position, and mode of contact for that thermocouple.

But all thermocouples are well known quantities; there are tables for all sorts of compositional formulations.  I.e., the "offset value" or conversion from potential to temperature should be the same!

#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2005, 01:38:44 pm »
well i hate to ask for help but this has been bugging me for nearly a week.  My work machine has been restarting randomly (several times and only when its inactive) during the course of the day.  i have yet to catch the bloody thing doing it and am have tempted to just start recording it or somthing.  anyways this didn't happen until i installed my new vid card, a 6800 gt, which has worked flawlessly since purchase (need to upgrade its heatsink for better performance but nothing really all that important).  I'm halfway thinking that i might have a driver problem but i'm really unsure at the moment.  I know its not any of my power setting as my computer is set to always on.  And I know for a fact that i'm not having any heating issues as it idles at around 30 C (proccesor and mb). The vid card is around 45C but it also has i much higher peak temp than the processors (somewhere neard 100 c) and as said before it only shuts off while idling (and i'm on my lappy surfing the web).

It really starting to bug me because i found out that locking the computer prevents these restarts but after a period of time the computer locks up and gives me a black screen (i'm on a kvm so i only see one computer at a time).  I've pretty much troubleshot as far as i can (checked all my hardware connections which apear to be good and seated) so any help would be greatly appreciated
Rob

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#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2005, 02:11:16 pm »
Of course with a system that is acting flaky there is one thing to do FIRST.  Backup your data DO IT NOW! and keep it current at least until you solve the issue and know that the system is reliable again.

I sent a PC to a friend on indefinite loan and recently got it back.  He claimed that it was overheating and crashing 15 minutes after he turned it on.  I checked and the crash was true but the overheating was not.  I then spent the next 4 hours in safe mode (Win98SE) defragging the 17gb hard disk.  It has worked without a crash for up to 3 weeks at a time since then.  Defragging may not help you but it definitely won't hurt.  A scandisk would also be a good idea as you could have a bad sector that windows is using.

You didn't mention your OS but I have found with Windows that not only the defragging is important but also that just booting into safe mode and rebooting again seems to enhance stability.  While in safe mode it might be wise to check your device drivers, at times I have seen duplicate copies that only show up in Safe Mode and which once fully removed and reinstalled again improved reliability.

Exporting your registry lets Windows clean it up and then reimporting the registry seems to help at times too.

Another thing is just how many things do you have in your start group?  I have seen machines so loaded down that they were crippled by "utilities" that people were loading everytime they booted.

Finally there is a utility build into Windows (98 and 2000 at least) called System File Checker (SFC.EXE) that can be used to check system files for corruption.   It can allow the reloading of corrupt or questionable files.  Have your install CD ready.

Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2005, 03:56:22 pm »
i actually have a pretty good idea why its unstable as it was stable before my new vid card.   However why its unstable is what i do not know, and is drving me insane.

I'm running xp pro, have run a defrag (no scan disk, will do that next).  I've done a quite a bit to ensure i have everything correct on it.

only thing that is confusing is the reason.  Its not like it shuts down every 15 mins, its the exact opposite.  It only shuts down when i leave it idle for a period of time, what the period is i don't know.  this in it self is really wierd to me as it doesn't make a bit of sense.  When i'm doing stuff cpu intensive it runs great, when i let it idle for to long it restarts... wierd.
Rob

"Elige Sortem Tuam"

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2005, 04:11:07 pm »
i actually have a pretty good idea why its unstable as it was stable before my new vid card.   However why its unstable is what i do not know, and is drving me insane.

I'm running xp pro, have run a defrag (no scan disk, will do that next).  I've done a quite a bit to ensure i have everything correct on it.

only thing that is confusing is the reason.  Its not like it shuts down every 15 mins, its the exact opposite.  It only shuts down when i leave it idle for a period of time, what the period is i don't know.  this in it self is really wierd to me as it doesn't make a bit of sense.  When i'm doing stuff cpu intensive it runs great, when i let it idle for to long it restarts... wierd.

I refuse to put up with Microsofts activation nonsense and so have very limited experience with XP.

Could be that your power supply is on the weak side for the system as updated.    You might try the link below to calculate the wattage of your system and compare it with the powersupply you are using.  Link provided by Darth Lyr (obviously;) )

You might also try an alternate video driver newer preferablly older might still be worth a try in case it is a bug in that precise driver version.  In addition you might wish to look at your video settings in the system BIOS and see if perhaps they are a little too agressive.   Even testing at lower performance levels might reveal more precisely where the problem is.

You might want to review your power management settings.  Specifically tell it not to power down the monitor when not in use.  The video driver may be having trouble reactivating it.

If it runs fine at full CPU usage ... run SETI @ Home it keeps the CPU at 100% and for most usages gets out of your way when you go to do things with the system.    It might be worth a test anyhow.

Good luck.  Let us know how it works out.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2005, 04:26:13 pm »
hmm, suppose i should gve my system spec and not just the problem

P 4 3.2 ghz
1 gig (2 512 mb) PC 3200 (kinston) (slot1 and slot 3)
WD 120 gig HD (100 and 20 gig partitions)
e-GeForce 6800gt (EVGA)
Asus P4P800 motherboard (agp 8x compatable)
550 watt Antec power supply (power is not an issue)
Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS
TV card

I have 5 fans running in the case, and a cool master Aero 4 (copper heatsink) on my processor

edit:  just used that site, 244 way under what my ps can produce

oh and as for seti, wish i could, that computer doesn't have internet as i don't feel like having USAFA comm sqaud installing anything onto my computer
Rob

"Elige Sortem Tuam"

#### toasty0

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2005, 09:56:14 pm »
i actually have a pretty good idea why its unstable as it was stable before my new vid card.   However why its unstable is what i do not know, and is drving me insane.

I'm running xp pro, have run a defrag (no scan disk, will do that next).  I've done a quite a bit to ensure i have everything correct on it.

only thing that is confusing is the reason.  Its not like it shuts down every 15 mins, its the exact opposite.  It only shuts down when i leave it idle for a period of time, what the period is i don't know.  this in it self is really wierd to me as it doesn't make a bit of sense.  When i'm doing stuff cpu intensive it runs great, when i let it idle for to long it restarts... wierd.

This sound every much like an electrical short. It is almost impossible to recreate or track down without diagnostic equipment. Pull out your new vid card and reinstall the old one and see if the crash occurs. If not it is a pretty safe assumption it is the card causing the issue and not any software conflicts.

Jerry
MCTS: SQL Server 2005 | MCP: Windows Server 2003 | MCTS: Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist | MCT: Microsoft Certified Trainer | MOS: Microsoft Office Specialist 2003 | VSP: VMware Sales Professional | MCTS: Vista

#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2005, 10:08:55 pm »
looks like i will be bumming a neighbors card then, sold that one already lol
Rob

"Elige Sortem Tuam"

#### toasty0

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2005, 11:22:51 pm »
looks like i will be bumming a neighbors card then, sold that one already lol

Make sure the drivers work...hmmm...

wait a minute...hey, just take out the card and run it with the window driver. Everything will look crap, but you wanna see if the behavor is recreated. If not, then it's your vid card...or........

You could install the card on your friend's 'puter and see if it does it on his/her box.

Jerry the cat skinner
MCTS: SQL Server 2005 | MCP: Windows Server 2003 | MCTS: Microsoft Certified Technology Specialist | MCT: Microsoft Certified Trainer | MOS: Microsoft Office Specialist 2003 | VSP: VMware Sales Professional | MCTS: Vista

#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2005, 12:20:26 pm »
think i figured out what the problem was (as it hasn't shut off in a day and half).  my screen saver wasn't working correctly and was crashing my computer (somting i dled).  Finally caught it w/ an error message which pointed back to that.  hopefully its as simple as that, other wise i'm going to be annoyed lol
Rob

"Elige Sortem Tuam"

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2006, 12:11:43 am »
Hey y'all (who can help at all), I installed some document viewer I needed for a very short time and it came with some Installshield Installer program that acts like a virus/adware.  I pops up every so often and tells me this or that program needs to be updated, programs I don't care about.  So I deleted the viewer.

But the Installshield Installer won't go.  I can't even delete some of its files.  This tells me it's viruslike or adware.

Suggestions?  Specifically, I'd welcome effective uninstallation advice.

#### The Bar-Abbas Anomaly

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2006, 10:05:56 pm »

Check your Add//Remove programs for something that looks like this program and if you find one, remove it.

If you don't see it there, check Start --> Programs --> Startup and see if it loads from there.  If so, right-click and delete it.

Also run regedit and go to HKey_Local_Machine --> Software --> Microsoft --> Windows --> Current Version --> Run and see if you seen it loading from there and if so, delete it.  While you're there, you can also delete tkbell (unnecessary RealPlayer associate) qttask (unneccessary Quicktime associate) and anything else you find there that you don't need....

Alpha Dog is in the HOUSE!!!  (But he needs to go out...)

#### GE-Raven

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2006, 09:51:54 am »
I also recommend the tool

Hijackthis.exe

Very nice and powerful tool to view and remove stuff that runs on startup.

BE VERY CAREFUL, you can easily hose your machine with it.

Google the name to find it.

GE-Raven

#### Skawpya

• Posts: 402
##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2006, 10:57:35 pm »
Another puzzle for you folks.

former and hopefully soon to be restored system
Msi 865pe neo 3 motherboard
4 x 256mb ddr ram
non over clocked pentium 4, 300 ghz
Siig sound card
power supply allied model 1 AL-A300 ATX, 300 watts
a 80 gig maxtor hard drive and a 200 gig maxtor hard drive

a few weeks ago there was a brown out, in some places, a black out, locally. Upon returning home, the 200gig hd that held the os was fried. I hooked it up to the other machine, reformatted, and then reattached to the original system, reinstalled windows ((first mistake likely)). For a while things went well enough, then the system would first have a freeze of the moniter display, a repeated refrain of any music playing at the time, and a second or two later, it would lock on one repeated note.

A few times of that and I backed up both hard drives on each other, though the os hard drive was as lesser concern as I didnt store anything unreplaceable on it. Anyway two days ago, it finally died again. I took the drive out, reformated it again, found a bad sector, had that dealt with, and again tried reinstalling windows. I also installed windows on the 80 gig drive.

The puzzle is that now, with the 200 gig drive it freezes every time I get to the "Welcome" screen, while the 80 gig drive freezes just after the normal windows display comes on.

So far I have cleared that it is not
the hard drives (both function normally if slaved on the other machine, though I did have to reformat the 200 gig hd)
the speakers or moniter, both are working fine now that I using my back up machine with them.

#### Javora

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2006, 06:52:51 am »
Skawpya I think I would take the system down to a local computer store(IE not Best Buy, Circut City, etc.) and have them put a electrical tester to it.  I'm thinking that the brown out might have damaged something besides your hard drive.  My first guess would be the Power Supply, followed by the Motherboard and then the Processor.  But I think taking the system in and paying $5~$20USD might be worth the time you would spend trying to test it out yourself.

While you are down there I would also take a look at a good UPS (Uninterpretable Power Supply).  That should protect you from any further brown/black outs and the cost of replacing something in your system.  Hope this helps.

#### Overmind

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2006, 03:55:09 am »
What HDDs are those ?
What models (WD, Maxtor, Seagate, etc.) ?
Individuality is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. Negotiation is irrelevant.
Termination is inevitable. Assimilation is inevitable. The End is inevitable.
Fun is illogical. Confort is illogical. Recreation is illogical.
The Standard is inefficient. Peace is inefficient. Diplomacy is inefficient.
Emotion is a design flaw. The Reality is Unreal. The Truth is classified.

#### Soliton

• Posts: 32
##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #44 on: August 25, 2006, 11:26:33 pm »
One thing that drove me crazy was bad memory. It will make you PC just act flakey and it is a pain to diagnose unless you are looking for it. If your PC is doing goofy things, try running memtest. It will stress test your system's memory. It should be able to run for hours without any errors, something I do whenever I assemble a new PC. Even name brand & brand new memory can fail this test (though name brands are far better than generic memory). If you get any errors, you should replace that memory as any errors will eventually lead to big problems (corrupted files).

http://www.memtest86.com/

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #45 on: August 26, 2006, 01:36:37 pm »
Twice now I have had my router "die" on me and have it turn out to be the power supply that died not the router itself.  The second time was just this week.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Sirgod

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2006, 11:43:35 pm »
Twice now I have had my router "die" on me and have it turn out to be the power supply that died not the router itself.  The second time was just this week.

Raises hand ... Me also. Hell I took mine apart this last week, In order to look at the board, smell around for burning. Linksys, has crap when IT comes to adapters, as the board was fine. Well, It was untill I got upset and took the 12 gauge to the whole mess.

Stephen Shooting electronics each and every day.

"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #47 on: September 03, 2006, 10:00:30 am »
I can't shoot it.  It is an old US Robotics router with a built in serial port that I use for modem sharing - nearly impossible to replace.  At least until I find where I put that &^*% spare.  Meanwhile I plan to go looking for some spare power units for it at an electronics surpluss store when I get the chance.  Considering its age I can't really complain too much of problems after years of trouble free working.

As a side effect I did learn a couple of things about Linux.  When I plug a digital camera into the USB port it is recognized right off as a camera.  Turns out that it recognizes the directory structure not the camera.  This falls in the good news bad news category.  Good news is that it autmatically gives me a selection of software to load and handle the images.  Bad news is it assumes there are only images and doesn't allow me to treat it as a hard drive.  Even if the memory card is moved to a card reader it still detects as a camera and is limited.  A little annoying as I tend to use the same cards for file transfer and cameras.  Fortunately I have a 512 mb compact flash card that is only used for file transfers but I can't use the 4gb card from the digital camera directly from the camera like I can with windows.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Sirgod

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #48 on: September 03, 2006, 10:22:54 am »
If you don't mind, what kind of Card do you have? I ask because I finally got around to hooking up my Copier (this huge 400lb + POS, for use as a printer, and Eventually, I want to Make some large prints of the grandkids.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #49 on: September 03, 2006, 10:37:30 am »
If you don't mind, what kind of Card do you have? I ask because I finally got around to hooking up my Copier (this huge 400lb + POS, for use as a printer, and Eventually, I want to Make some large prints of the grandkids.

Stephen

The new camera uses secure digital (I have a 512 mb as well as the 4 gb) the older cards are all compact flash (I have 1x16mb, 3x128mb, 1x512mb).   I prefer the larger size of the CF cards, they are easier to handle and harder to lose than the SD cards.

I do like the new camera having a capacity for 1314 (6 mega pixel) images before needing to delete things.  In theory it can take 2 hours of 30fps video on that card.  The only issue is that the camera can't format the card, I have to format it on a card reader with the computer.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #50 on: September 06, 2006, 12:03:51 am »
Hey folks- guess what: new problem.

So what else is new, right?

Anyhow, two computers on my little home wireless network are connected by Netgear WG311T wireless PCI adaptors.  The funny thing is that on one, the antenna seems to be bad.  There is evidence from unscrewing and switching antennae with the other computer and whichever computer that bad antenna was on, reception was very poor.  The system with the antenna got pretty good reception.

Could it be something else?  I mean, how does an antenna go bad?  It's not like its a moving part like a fan belt or in contact with constantly moving parts like motor brushes.

I'd like to get a better idea of what could be going on before I give in and swap out the card.

Anyone got any ideas?

#### The Bar-Abbas Anomaly

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #51 on: September 06, 2006, 12:31:27 pm »

Well, my first thought was "How could an antenna go bad - It's really just a piece (or two) of wire!"?!?  But if it's always been that way, maybe it has a manufacturing defect.  I'd be very surprised to find that something hit it with enough current to damage it but not completely toast your router in the process...

You should be able to find a new antenna for it on eBay pretty cheap.

Alpha Dog is in the HOUSE!!!  (But he needs to go out...)

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #52 on: September 06, 2006, 08:59:52 pm »
It's not for the router itself, but the wireless adaptor card (receiver) on the networked computer.

I think, though, that I might have an extra card in the house somewhere.  If I can dig it up, I'll simply install the new one in place rather than go through eBay.

#### Sirgod

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2006, 09:59:37 am »
Trojan Help.

It seems my C:/WINDOWS/system32 according to AVG has the Codex.exe infected with a Trojan Genric.zzq

However, Norton doesn't see it, It can't be removed normaly, and I'm almost afraid to remove it manually.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2006, 10:28:47 am »
I just did some looking on the internet and Codex.exe is part of a piece of spyware called WinRecon.  Here is a link to manual removal instructions plus a program to remove it.  I am not familiar with the source of the program so its "use at your own risk" time.  Before trying it have you tried any of the antispyware programs on the Security sublist of the Free software list?  One of them should do the trick.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Sirgod

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2006, 10:59:07 am »
Thanks again Nem. I'll be trying the Auto Removal tool Spyhunter 2.7 From Enigma, It figures Windows defender didn't find this...

Anyway, If not, and you hear a large Bellowing scream up North, You'll know It was just me playing with the regestry again.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2006, 01:27:11 pm »
Thanks again Nem. I'll be trying the Auto Removal tool Spyhunter 2.7 From Enigma, It figures Windows defender didn't find this...

Anyway, If not, and you hear a large Bellowing scream up North, You'll know It was just me playing with the regestry again.

Stephen

Let us know if it works and what actually worked as well.  To be fair to Microsoft Windows Defender is still in beta isn't it?

Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Sirgod

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2006, 05:30:57 pm »
Yep, Still BETA. I tired a few different ones, Finaly settled on using SbyBot  (USed to use it all the time), And IT found everything but. So I just did the Regedit thingie, and It seems to have fixed everything right up.

Well, now to the gaming forums to pester peeps over GC 2

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

#### Capt. Mike

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #58 on: September 16, 2006, 09:58:43 am »
Hey folks- guess what: new problem.

So what else is new, right?

Anyhow, two computers on my little home wireless network are connected by Netgear WG311T wireless PCI adaptors.  The funny thing is that on one, the antenna seems to be bad.  There is evidence from unscrewing and switching antennae with the other computer and whichever computer that bad antenna was on, reception was very poor.  The system with the antenna got pretty good reception.

Could it be something else?  I mean, how does an antenna go bad?  It's not like its a moving part like a fan belt or in contact with constantly moving parts like motor brushes.

I'd like to get a better idea of what could be going on before I give in and swap out the card.

Anyone got any ideas?

10 days late, but what the heck...

There can be a problem with the antenna itself...many times there is an RCL circuit (very miniturized nowadays) that is an impedance matcher

See this...

A "antenna component" is a portion of the antenna performing a distinct function and limited for use in an antenna, as for example, a reflector, director, or active antenna. "Parasitic elements" are usually metallic conductive structures which reradiate into free space impinging electromagnetic radiation coming from or going to the active antenna. The "electromagnetic wave refractor" is a structure which is shaped or positioned to delay or accelerate transmitted electromagnetic waves, passing through such structure, an amount which varies over the wave front. The refractor alters the direction of propagation of the waves emitted from the structure with respect to the waves impinging on the structure. It can alternatively bring the wave to a focus or alter the wave front in other ways, such as to convert a spherical wave front to a planar wave front (or vice versa). The velocity of the wave radiated have a component which is in the same direction ("director") or in the opposite direction ("reflector") that of the velocity of the impinging wave. A "director" is usually a metallic conductive structure which reradiates into free space impinging electromagnetic radiation coming from or going to the active antenna, the velocity of the reradiated wave having a component in the direction of velocity of the impinging wave. The director modifies the radiation pattern of the active antenna and there is no significant potential relationship between the active antenna and this conductive structure. A "reflector" is usually a metallic conductive structure (e.g., screen, rod or plate) which reradiates back into free space impinging electromagnetic radiation coming from or going to the active antenna. The velocity of the returned wave having a component in a direction opposite to the direction of velocity of the impinging wave. The reflector modifies the radiation of the active antenna. There is no significant potential relationship between the active antenna and this conductive structure.

An "antenna coupling network" is a passive network (which may be any combination of a resistive, inductive or capacitive circuit(s)) for transmitting the signal energy between the active antenna and a source (or receiver) of such signal energy. Typically, antennas are designed to operate in a relatively narrow frequency range. The design criteria for receiving and transmitting antennas differ slightly, but generally an antenna can receive and transmit equally well. This property is called "reciprocity".

The vast majority of antennas are simple vertical rods a quarter of a wavelength long. Such antennas are simple in construction, usually inexpensive, and both radiate in and receive from all horizontal directions (omnidirectional). One limitation of this antenna is that it does not radiate or receive in the direction in which the rod points. This region is called the antenna blind cone or null. Antennas have practical use for the transmission and reception of radio frequency signals (radio, TV, etc.), which can theroretically travel over great distances at the speed of light (the true velocity depends on the transmission medium over which it passes). These signals can also pass through nonconducting walls (although often there is a variable signal reduction depending on the type of wall, and natural rock can be very reflective to radio signals).

Also there could just be a simple break in the antenna...replacing the antenna could be the answer..

Let me know

Mike
Summum ius summa iniuria.

The more law, the less justice.

Cicero, De Officiis, I, 33

"It doesn't, and you can't, I won't, and it don't
it hasn't, it isn't, it even ain't, and it shouldn't
it couldn't"
FZ, 1974

My chops were not as fast...[but] I just leaned more on what was in my mind than what was in my chops.  I learned a long time ago that one note can go a long way if it's the right one, and it will probably whip the guy with twenty notes.
--Les Paul

#### E_Look

• Grand High Scribe
• Captain
• Posts: 6446
##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2006, 10:40:13 pm »
Hey, thanks!

But I'll have to let you know a little later:

during trying to figure out what was going on, taking the wireless adaptor PCI card on and off, and on the third time I removed it and then put it back, the system suddenly would not power up.  The two little red LEDs on the motherboard lit up, but there was no power to the system.  Thinking it could be the power supply, I swapped it out with one known to be good and still no power.  Now, it could be the power switch on the case, but what are the odds??!

My take- bad motherboard (even though it was a fairly expensive DFI NF3 chipset board... you may or may not remember I had complained here about it having very possibly defective capacitors limiting the FSB rates: I had to slow it from 166 to either 133 or 100 MHz, and Dracho advised me then even to replace the mobo).  So I took a couple of days to search for a Socket A (or, Socket 462; same thing) mobo that I wouldn't be scared of buying these days, as Socket A AMD CPUs and their mobos are being phased out right now.  I came up with the Abit KW7 mobo for $60 from MicroCenter.com; though, the physical brick and mortar store in town were out of stock on it. As soon as it gets in and I rebuild his computer system, I'll test out that wireless adaptor card again. For all I know, it could even just be a problem also with that part of the original motherboard. * * * Now on a related tangent, boy, am I upset. I spent a tad bit more than I actually wanted to get that original DFI socket A board, as they have a great rep (and deservedly so, based on their products' performance and durability history as far as I can glean from people and the Internet). But, I got burned. Rats. #### Nemesis • Captain Kayn • Global Moderator • Commodore • Posts: 12287 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #60 on: September 17, 2006, 06:01:03 am » Now, it could be the power switch on the case, but what are the odds??! Can't tell you the odds but I did have that once, on my 386/25mhz. That was of course some time ago. Do unto others as Frey has done unto you. Seti Team Free Software I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it. FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two." #### Sirgod • Whooot Master Cattle Baron • Global Moderator • Vice Admiral • Posts: 27813 • Gender: ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #61 on: September 17, 2006, 11:09:59 am » Anychance you can contact the company and get them to replace it, give you some cashage back? stephen "You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War #### E_Look • Grand High Scribe • Captain • Posts: 6446 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #62 on: September 17, 2006, 04:30:52 pm » If it was MY computer, Stephen, sure, I'd e-mail DFI right away and try to do something. In fact, the first time, they wanted me to RMA it back to them, but I had to pay shipping. The only reason why I won't is that it's my kid's rig and I really want him to have it back up and running as soon as possible, though I might regret that as I KNOW he's mainly going to play games with it and do schoolwork on it about 0.001% of the time, contrary to what he tells me. But seriously, he does need it for (some) school assignments and I'd rather not have him wait a couple of months before I can get it back up and running. Now, another question- if it is the motherboard, do I have to reinstall Windows(XP)? As far as I know, the HD is intact. #### Sirgod • Whooot Master Cattle Baron • Global Moderator • Vice Admiral • Posts: 27813 • Gender: ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #63 on: September 17, 2006, 05:19:46 pm » Nope XP should be fine, It will go through an ID check when you first start it up, in other words detecting anything new on the MB. IDE ports etc. Stephen "You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War #### Elvis • Lt. Junior Grade • Posts: 322 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #64 on: September 18, 2006, 07:21:15 am » If you are switching froma NF2 DFI board to a Via based Abit board than you are better served by reinstalling Windows. I'm not saying that Windows won't work it just thast if you need to troubleshoot anything in the future how will you know its not some conflict between the old drivers that still exist on the machine and the new ones? It will always be suspect if you have problems. WIndows is also probably going to need to be reactivated in any case with the amount of change a new motherboard brings. New motherboard almost always equals a clean install of Windows. #### E_Look • Grand High Scribe • Captain • Posts: 6446 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #65 on: September 21, 2006, 05:59:22 pm » Oh. #### E_Look • Grand High Scribe • Captain • Posts: 6446 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #66 on: November 27, 2006, 08:44:32 pm » Hey guys, another installment in the never ending saga of computer troubles: My CPU chip, a socket 754 AMD Athlon 64 3000+, a chip KNOWN to run hot, has for the last couple of weeks (or that's when I began to notice) started to run about ten degrees hotter than it used to, now running on idle at 73 C (according the motherboard's windows interface) or 68 C (according to the BIOS report). Now I initially suspected some new software or even spyware in the background that might be eating up clock cycles and generating all this extra heat, but there isn't any new software installed nor any spy/malware detected. Could it be that the fan on the CPU heatsink is going bad or maybe the thermal pad on the heatsink (that came with the chip in one retail kit) has degraded? Could the fix be as easy as getting a new, better heatsink with a dab of Arctic Silver (which I may still some of around in the house)? As always, I appreciate ANY help or advice coming from any of you guys. #### Javora • America for Americans first. • Commander • Posts: 2965 • Gender: ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #67 on: November 27, 2006, 08:55:59 pm » You could try that Ed but I would also look at what kind of case you have. If there isn't proper air-flow, then that maybe what is increasing the system temperature. I don't know what case you have or where the fans and system wiring in that case are located so you'll have to judge for yourself on that. Also look and see if the system is near a heater vent, with the colder season coming on your furnace is going to be putting out some heat. If that system is near a heater vent your furnace could be pumping hot air into your system. After you rule out those possibilities, then I would look into a new heat sink and fan. Just remember that if you go with a new heat sink/fan to polish off all the old thermal pad off the CPU before you install the new heat sink. Hope this helps. #### E_Look • Grand High Scribe • Captain • Posts: 6446 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #68 on: November 27, 2006, 09:28:27 pm » Nah, the computer hasn't moved from it's spot in a long time. But I just realized I did install a second hard drive. But all that should do is increase the entire system's temperature, which didn't really increase much. You don't think the case and CPU fans are just aging (about 2 years old or so)? If it turns out I do need a new heatsink/fan combo, what would you recommend? I just saw an ASUS unit that's supposed to be heat piped and is marked down ten bucks, on Newegg. #### Nemesis • Captain Kayn • Global Moderator • Commodore • Posts: 12287 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #69 on: November 27, 2006, 09:48:16 pm » I've seen 2 CPU fans give issues. Neither failed totally but each slowed down permanently and were not cooling properly because of that. I replaced the whole heatsink/fan combo on one and just pulled the fan off an old heat sink used it to replace the other fan without removing the heat sink itself. You didn't say but I assume that you did use compressed air to blow any accumulated dust out of the heat sink? Adding another hard drive could also change the airflow in the case, especially with the old ribbon cables. You just might want to look and see where the cables are relative to the possible air flow issues. Do unto others as Frey has done unto you. Seti Team Free Software I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it. FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two." #### E_Look • Grand High Scribe • Captain • Posts: 6446 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #70 on: November 27, 2006, 09:55:35 pm » There are, in my view, too many cables, even if the HDs are connected by round cables. Round cables only slightly ease the airflow issue, I think. No, I didn't use compressed air; didn't have any at home. I just tried by best to suck it out with a vacuum cleaner... needless to say, it was only partially effective. Since you've established that electronic device cooling fans DO slow over their operating lifetime, could also the CASE fans have suffered a similar malady? Would you recommend replacing ALL the fans? #### Nemesis • Captain Kayn • Global Moderator • Commodore • Posts: 12287 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #71 on: November 27, 2006, 10:19:24 pm » Case fans are less of an issue. In part because they contribute less to the cooling but they also run slower and cooler and therefore experience less wear giving them longer lifespans. CPU fans run both fast and hot. So long as your motherboard temperature is alright I would think that it comes down to the heatsink/fan combo or blocked air flow to the heatsink/fan. Clean it with compressed air and make sure there is no air flow blockage then consider changing the heatsink/fan if still needed. I try to run the cables in places where air flow is not going to go or be needed anyhow. I'd like to see them start putting cable connectors on the bottom of the mother board or on one edge so they can be kept from hanging everywhere. The SATA cables are a great improvement (though I don't use any yet) partially because of being smaller in cross section but also because of being longer so they can be routed around the air paths rather than at times being forced into the air flow due to length constraints, I've had that with IDE and PATA cables too often. Do unto others as Frey has done unto you. Seti Team Free Software I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it. FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two." #### Sirgod • Whooot Master Cattle Baron • Global Moderator • Vice Admiral • Posts: 27813 • Gender: ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #72 on: November 27, 2006, 11:20:59 pm » I'm pretty good on the IDE cables, but all the twist ties in the world can't help my PS connectors. The only thing saving me, is the 7 case fans I have, otherwise, my PC would be running way to hot. Stephen "You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War #### E_Look • Grand High Scribe • Captain • Posts: 6446 ##### Re: PC Troubleshooting... « Reply #73 on: November 28, 2006, 11:24:51 pm » Holy McSmoke!! Kudos to the combined intellect of Nemesis and Javora! I busted my piggy bank, went over to MicroCenter after dindin, and sprung for a$5 can of compressed air (really, freon, but what's a few fluorinated hydrocarbons among ozone-dependent humans?).  My wife found out I was heading out and so saddled me with a bunch of errands, and I got back later than I wanted to.

But, I still pulled out the 423,815.73 cables I had in the back of the computer and the one in the front, cleared off a spot on my desk, heaved the metal prism up on the clear spot, opened it and zapped the CPU fan/heatsink and the other case fans, along with those in the PSU with the vacuum cleaner's hose nozzle near the blasting spots.

But, I still found a few points even the compressed gas, with the fine spray tube attached no less, couldn't reach.  So I decided to do the reverse: I got some duct tape, and taped a drinking straw to the vac's nozzle and stuck it into those tight unblastable spots.  Son of a gun, it sucked out the dust bunny remnants that clung tenaciously to those corners of the heatsink under the fan, those areas of the fans blocked from direct air blasting by the fan blades, etc.  (Even so, little dust clumps flew everywhere almost inside my case; fortunately, my wife's little "Shark" vac is so strong it sucked all the dust clumps quite a few inches away from the nozzle.)

Well, it's now perhaps over a half hour since I plugged all my cables back on and booted up.  It started at 42C and now is only SIX DEGREES CELSIUS (about 11 degrees Fahrenheit for us Yanks) higher than when it booted!

Wow.  I thought either a K-BB or those six doomsday cigars in the old SFC1 campaign were tough customers.  Bah!  Dust beats them all!

Again, thanks to all respondents, but chiefly Jav and Nem!

Edit:

I *should* add, though, that playing SFC (1, in this case) raises the CPU temp by another 4 C to 52 C.  Last night, BC, (before cleaning), it set off the preprogrammed temperature alarm!  As soon as I closed SFC, it went immediately back down to 49 C and right now (2 AM, continuousl yon since I first posted tonight, it's now 47/48 C!!)

Now I know what they REALLY mean when they say, "Ah, cool!"
« Last Edit: November 29, 2006, 12:58:43 am by E_Look NCC-9091 »

#### Javora

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2006, 04:41:19 am »
Well great Ed, glad that problem got solved.  Now lets take it one step farther and try to reduce the amount of dust that is going into your system in the first place.  What I did is I used a very porous material to put in front of the intake fans without really reducing the airflow going into the system.  Then every so often (monthly or bimonthly) I take them out and clean it with either a vacuum cleaner and/or compressed air.  If your system doesn't have a way for you to easily attach the material then you may want to try what I did and use a hot-glue gun.  I've found that the hot-glue is easy to work with and can be peeled off with your fingers.  I did this with my side intake fan mount and have had good luck it.  As always, hope this helps.

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #75 on: November 29, 2006, 10:29:46 pm »
Hmmm... filtered fan intakes!  Great idea.

If I come up with a way to install somethiing like that as nifty as yours, I'll post it, too.

#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #76 on: November 29, 2006, 11:33:47 pm »
hmmm, i wouldn't recommend using a vacuum unless its one of them small battery ones.  always remembered my tech teacher telling me not to do that, think it might have had to do w/ static charge building up in big vacs.  Though I could be completly of base here....
Rob

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#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #77 on: November 30, 2006, 12:00:58 am »
hmmm, i wouldn't recommend using a vacuum unless its one of them small battery ones.  always remembered my tech teacher telling me not to do that, think it might have had to do w/ static charge building up in big vacs.  Though I could be completly of base here....

Nah... the system *should* be grounded enough as designed by the mobo makers, vid card makers, etc.  Besides, in general, no part of the vac touches the system, you really only stick the nozzle over different areas.  But in my case on the second day, I DID touch the system at various points, but with the plastic drinking straw I taped to the nozzle (so as only to suck through the straw), and then only to plastic fan parts and at one time only, the aluminum fins of the CPU heatsink, but I suspect the straw, tape, nozzle, and hose kluge is insulated from the vac's motor, which turning may generate charge, if any... and a person is a worse source of static, but not if he's grounded himself to the case, which is a given when you're leaning on it's edge doing all this stuff!

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #78 on: December 01, 2006, 08:19:05 pm »
...  What I did is I used a very porous material to put in front of the intake fans without really reducing the airflow going into the system.s.

You know, I wonder if that foam for window A/C units might work... nah, too thick.  I need something like... YEAH!  What do you guys think of cutting a piece from a vacuum cleaner bag?

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #79 on: December 01, 2006, 08:23:48 pm »
You could try flattening out one of the dusk masks sold to woodworking hobbiests.  If you can get it flat enough it should do the trick.

Glad to hear the computer is working well again.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #80 on: December 01, 2006, 09:03:23 pm »
You could try flattening out one of the dusk masks sold to woodworking hobbiests.  If you can get it flat enough it should do the trick.

Glad to hear the computer is working well again.

Now that's the easiest way to that, I think!

And thanks for the sentiment.  It's still sort of hard to believe the thermal insulatiing properties of... of all things... dust.

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2006, 01:03:13 pm »
I would guess that a lot of the insulating ability of dust comes from the airspaces that are trapped within the layers.  Little straight conduction of heat through a consistant medium.  Much harder for the heat to leave the dust and enter the air pocket then back into dust on the other side only to repeat that over and over as it travels through to the outside environment.  The rate of transmission must be greatly slowed by each of those borders that is transited.  Rather like standard home insulation.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2006, 02:56:14 pm »
I would guess that a lot of the insulating ability of dust comes from the airspaces that are trapped within the layers.  Little straight conduction of heat through a consistant medium.  Much harder for the heat to leave the dust and enter the air pocket then back into dust on the other side only to repeat that over and over as it travels through to the outside environment.  The rate of transmission must be greatly slowed by each of those borders that is transited.  Rather like standard home insulation.

Oh, you are absolutely and technically right.  I was just moaning and complaining, doing my New Yorker act.  I suspect that if the dust was compressed, it would greatly reduce its insulating ability, as you essentially outlined.

I am right now actually mildly surprised that one doesn't find on Newegg, MWave, Zipzoomfly, etc., filter mounted case fans for sale.  Since this ultimately still is a Star Trek based forum, it would be a very logical product to manufacture and sell!

#### The Bar-Abbas Anomaly

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #83 on: December 05, 2006, 10:43:32 pm »

Filtering limits the airflow too much, which is the more critical concern.

Dust doesn't really hurt too much inside the case except to limit airflow over the heat sinks or clog up the fans, but I had a friend who used to theorize that the real problem was humidity, because when the dust got damp it became conductive....

I'm not sure if he wasn't onto something...

Alpha Dog is in the HOUSE!!!  (But he needs to go out...)

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #84 on: December 05, 2006, 10:52:28 pm »
Ah, but no matter how "conductive" wet dust can become, it ultimately approximates the thermal conductivity of water and bare aluminum is always better than that... or for those of you who are rich folks, bare copper...

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #85 on: December 06, 2006, 08:05:54 pm »
Dust doesn't really hurt too much inside the case except to limit airflow over the heat sinks or clog up the fans, but I had a friend who used to theorize that the real problem was humidity, because when the dust got damp it became conductive....

I'm not sure if he wasn't onto something...

Hot dust on the heat sink/fans would have a difficult time becoming and staying damp.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #86 on: December 08, 2006, 09:14:43 pm »
'Rabs is onto something here, and I forgot to address it:

Yeah, I forgot about sufficient airflow.  If I DO put a filter in front of a fan, it will necessarily restrict airflow to some degree.  But are the average case fans you can buy in a comp shop or on the 'Net rotating fast enough to generate enough "thrust" so that any reduction of flow rate due to filtering is not critical?

Filtering limits the airflow too much, which is the more critical concern.

Dust doesn't really hurt too much inside the case except to limit airflow over the heat sinks or clog up the fans...

#### Javora

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #87 on: December 09, 2006, 05:24:07 pm »

Filtering limits the airflow too much, which is the more critical concern.

Dust doesn't really hurt too much inside the case except to limit airflow over the heat sinks or clog up the fans, but I had a friend who used to theorize that the real problem was humidity, because when the dust got damp it became conductive....

I'm not sure if he wasn't onto something...

As Ed has experienced dust can cause heat and airflow problems for your system.  I agree that a filter can decrease airflow but having dust stuck in the fan gears slows down the RPM rate of the fan and burns the fan out quicker.  To me its six of one and half-dozen of another.  It just comes down to convince for me.

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #88 on: December 10, 2006, 09:30:25 am »
Yeah, I forgot about sufficient airflow.  If I DO put a filter in front of a fan, it will necessarily restrict airflow to some degree.

Only the input fans should get the filters, the output fans will be unaffected.  Relatively thin filter material may be used to limit the flow reduction (you might consider nylon instead of the fiber filter I suggested earlier).  I don't use filters myself but many serious modders do.  It really depends on how often you need to clean the heat sinks and how annoying you find doing so.

Dust doesn't really hurt too much inside the case except to limit airflow over the heat sinks or clog up the fans..

Actually it coats everything inside the case and causes all components to run at higher temperatures than they really need to which does reduce the life expectancy of the system.  When I do clean the heat sinks I always blow dust off of everything in the system not just the sinks.

Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
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FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #89 on: December 10, 2006, 05:37:48 pm »
I was such a hamhanded bad shot with that can of compressed gas that the entire insides got cleaned anyway.  It's unbelievable that there's still something left in the can!

I think I will just use the "tape the drinking straw or coffee stirrer (depending and the smallness of the crevice to be suctioned out) to mouth of vacuum cleaner nozzle" trick in conjunction with the compressed gas...

... more often this time!

I'm not too sanguine, really, about using a filter, which in a way amounts to having a "permanent thin layer of dust" due to lowered air flow.

#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2007, 04:50:24 pm »
ya dust is a pain.  My system the other day when nutz on me because it overheated.  Had to take my airbrush and clean it out (ahhhh, having a a compressor and airbrush is so convient now )
Rob

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#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2007, 04:57:07 pm »
Ay ya... do you ever draw pictures with it??

(Still, it's a great "precision" tool to zap away dust.  Ingenious!)

#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2007, 05:05:15 pm »
its for model work mostly, though the last time i painted was 6 months ago, i've been pretty broke saving up for my spring break trip so i can't buy paints... hopefully next month i can buy paints and paint my D 7 (i've decided to use k'tinga color scheme... i don't llike my ships w/o some color lol)
Rob

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#### pepperman

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2007, 08:41:28 pm »
Quote
Hmmm... filtered fan intakes!  Great idea.

If I come up with a way to install somethiing like that as nifty as yours, I'll post it, too.

A pair of your girl friends nylons cut properly will make a good intake screen...just remember to clean them regularly.  What is you input/output fan ratio.

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2007, 09:11:32 pm »
Yo!  Watch it!!

It's wife.

You can get me seriously hurt.

#### KBF-Kurok

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2007, 09:03:06 pm »
ok here goes i have a friend whos internet connection is going real slow in exp he  went to tools,internet options then deleted the temp files and cookies and  had no change. any ideas?

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2007, 09:07:12 pm »
Often, it's not that stuff; it may be the connection itself.  How's he connecting to the Internet?

#### KBF-Kurok

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2007, 09:08:28 pm »
cable and his isp provider says he is operating at 6 megs per sec

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #98 on: May 10, 2007, 10:50:23 pm »
Hmmm... 6... that SOUNDS good...

... but I have a work PC and though it reports its connection speed as 10 Mbps, it's slow for a broadband (T1? T3?) connection.  I guess it may be due to its being on a big or big and poorly maintained network.

I don't know what to say to this.

Anyone else?

#### KBF-Kurok

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #99 on: May 11, 2007, 10:24:23 am »
im thinking your correct its cable so the net work might very well be real busy or porley maintained. Thanks for trying to help.

#### Panzergranate

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #100 on: June 20, 2007, 02:27:35 pm »
A quick one from a PC/MAC repair guy....

If a MAC powerbook won't start open up the power unit and replace C27 with a 10uF electrolytic capacitor. This will re-enable the soft start again. It's the only fault we ever had on power books.

If your PC/MAC does POST and then refuses to read the hard disc, stating that the HD is INVALID MEDIA then remove the HD, find soemone with a HD E2PROM set up rig (a PC rigged with a special card costing £900 here in the UK) and have them reprogramme the HD's controller card E2PROM. The rig will detect all the heads, tracks and sectors and then allow them to be reinstated.

I'm occasionally contrated by 3PR companies to do this very job.

So when your HD acts up it isn't neccessarily  dead, its just forgotten the settings given at the factory.

Also watch out for Quantum Fireballs over 10 Gigs as they have a nasty habit of catching fire!! A small flame will appear out of the head controller chip on the card and slowly burn outwards to the pins, taking 8 seconds in all. (We timed one at one place!!) It's just like the mission impossible titles.

Aparently the arm motor seizes inside and causes this. Just a design fault.

Most reliable drives are Maxtor as I've seen very few to repair.

Andy.

The Klingons have many ways to fry a cat. I prefer to use an L7 Fast Battlecruiser!!

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #101 on: March 02, 2008, 08:55:27 am »
here another pc problem with anti virus.

i remove ca anti virus cause it was old and replace it with a trial version of pccillin, i discover that for intermittent i lost all sound, at first i taught it was the sound card that was dead but sudently i get sound back and i lost it again.

the only think i did was install pccillin, so i remove it and was the source of the problem, i taught i uninstall it but its still they're.

before that i install mc caffee on it and reboot the com, all was fine, but this morning the com keep rebooting and i can see that pccillin it still they're and so is mc caffee, normally pccilin will not acept another antivirus but maybe because it was already there that it let the other install.

i can't go to control panel to uninstall pccillin because there no time to show all and if i try to go by the start button to pccillin for uninstall it close because of all they software that want to run.

i will clean that soon since they're are software i no longer use and other i don't want to see at the start like quick time, icq and another stuff to download but not emule, another kind that share and suppose to be faster.

so its a pentium 4 that got that problem, i wont have news for my amd before Tuesday and this backup com is limited under win 98, i will ask for dual boot so i can run win 98 and win xp

#### Centurus

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #102 on: March 02, 2008, 09:11:20 am »
here another pc problem with anti virus.

i remove ca anti virus cause it was old and replace it with a trial version of pccillin, i discover that for intermittent i lost all sound, at first i taught it was the sound card that was dead but sudently i get sound back and i lost it again.

the only think i did was install pccillin, so i remove it and was the source of the problem, i taught i uninstall it but its still they're.

before that i install mc caffee on it and reboot the com, all was fine, but this morning the com keep rebooting and i can see that pccillin it still they're and so is mc caffee, normally pccilin will not acept another antivirus but maybe because it was already there that it let the other install.

i can't go to control panel to uninstall pccillin because there no time to show all and if i try to go by the start button to pccillin for uninstall it close because of all they software that want to run.

i will clean that soon since they're are software i no longer use and other i don't want to see at the start like quick time, icq and another stuff to download but not emule, another kind that share and suppose to be faster.

so its a pentium 4 that got that problem, i wont have news for my amd before Tuesday and this backup com is limited under win 98, i will ask for dual boot so i can run win 98 and win xp

Out of curiosity, when was the last time you did a full reformat?
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#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #103 on: April 22, 2008, 11:26:41 am »
Ah, one shouldn't have to reformat.  It's really for dire emergencies.  It's probably better to delete, delete, defragment, reorganize, and delete more junk... then run antivirus and antispyware just in case.

#### AlchemistiD

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #104 on: September 03, 2008, 06:15:12 pm »
Okay, I recently had to reformat my hard disk after picking up a nasty ROOTKIT infestation.  I've reinstalled almost everything but my games, but I've noticed some odd behaviour out of my internet browser(s) Firefox 3 and IE7.

Images don't load, or they do, but not all of them.  Or they ALL do, but then the next page doesn't load any.  I'll show you what I mean in some captures I'm attaching.  Refreshing sometimes brings the images up, but only after about two dozen ctrl-r keystrokes.  This includes forum avatars, thumbnails, attachments, new post markers, posted images, logos, forum buttons, ect.  There are some things that remain unaffected, like the background image in Sci-Fi Meshes picture viewer or website backgrounds like at Bungie.net

Still, I had to reload twice just to see the reply button and its fast becoming aggravating to say the least.  This has been happening since I completed reinstalling XP Media Center on my PC.

I've tried clearing my cache and reopening all the browsers, doesn't work.  I've tried disabling McAffe and Spybot, doesn't work.  I've scanned with every anti-malware program I have, nothing.

#### Javora

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #105 on: September 03, 2008, 07:47:03 pm »
Well you are getting something form the Internet or you wouldn't see anything at all.  Looks more like a settings issue to me.

#### AlchemistiD

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #106 on: September 03, 2008, 08:17:54 pm »
Nevermind, sorry for the bother.

Leave it to me to miss THE BLEEDING OBVIOUS.  The issue has been found and dealt with.

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #107 on: September 30, 2008, 03:07:18 pm »
I got up Monday morning and tried to use my computer, no response from the keyboard.  I spent the day looking for a solution and backing up my data in case I had to reinstall.  (This is on Linux Mint 4 KDE version, I'm upgrading to 5 in a few days).

The end result found in the evening?  Sometime late Sunday just before I went to bed I must have been trying to change the text size in my browser by holding down the ALT key and using the scroll wheel on my trackball as cookies popped up.  How did this cause it?  KDE has accessibility features and if you hold a key too long it thinks that you want to use the slow keys function and pops up to ask if you really do.  I think it must have popped up just as I clicked on a cookie (to deny likely) and been clicked on without my even seeing it.  The slow keys feature is so handicapped people who have trouble hitting the right key and hit several keys briefly but only the key they hold down will register.  The keyboard would have responded if I held the keys longer.

I don't know if Windows has an equivalent feature or not (I haven't checked).  I do know that after not using Windows for much except the occasional game play going back was painful.  I kept trying to switch desktops (there isn't another desktop to go to) and scroll between open programs with the scroll wheel while pointing to the task bar.

To each his own I guess.  But I learned something (and turned off the slow keys altogether).
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
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#### Tus-XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #108 on: October 14, 2008, 11:39:20 pm »
If i'm not mistaken in windows its called sticky keys... would confirm but i'm on ubuntu w/ the lappy (which works nicely, though i think when i get my dell disks i'll put xp back on... need something so i can model on the road )
Rob

"Elige Sortem Tuam"

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #109 on: October 23, 2008, 08:39:04 pm »
I have an old NEC Multisync 22" monitor and recently it has been giving me problems.  The top 1" or so "collapses" into a narrow line and the screen flickers.  I very reluctantly replaced it with a newer LCD (lower resolution unfortunately) widescreen monitor a few weeks ago.  I put it on my "spare" computer and was playing around with it the other day and found that it works ok if I lower the refresh rate.  So if you have a failing monitor you might be able to get some more life out of it by playing with the refresh rates.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Dracho

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #110 on: July 06, 2009, 05:34:06 pm »
check the plugin pages in your browsers and see what they're trying to run
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #111 on: June 25, 2012, 06:36:34 pm »
Now, it could be the power switch on the case, but what are the odds??!

Can't tell you the odds but I did have that once, on my 386/25mhz.  That was of course some time ago.

Twice.

In this case the front panel must have come loose when I shifted the machine and then slowly moved further over a period of weeks.  Eventually the external button no longer reached the actual switch.  A small "whack" and all is well again.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2012, 12:53:06 am »
Holy McSmoke!  A SIX year interval between replies!

Hey, signs of life are good!

How y'all been?  Hurricane Sandy was, well, um, ... "cold" to me: no power for 14 days!!

I still play SFC (1)... about a few times a month... maybe one day I'll reinstall OP or EAW or III... actually, I might get to fix some plumbing around the house before that...

... although for the first time ever, I'm going to get a LAPTOP!!  I still try to install SFC 1 in it; I hope it won't crash!

And to get back on-topic, I'm still typing right as of now on the SAME computer that I did when I started this thread oh, so many years ago!  Again, good to see you guys are still here after all this time!

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #113 on: December 04, 2012, 05:15:47 pm »
I'm not sure this is PC troubleshooting, but can anyone here run SFC 1 on Win 8?

It installs, with a bit of difficulty, but then, it runs for about a minute or five, and then just terminally hangs.

#### Sirgod

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #114 on: December 24, 2012, 08:33:50 pm »
not sure on Win 8 man, haven't made the leap yet.

But dude, good to see ya again?

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #115 on: December 26, 2012, 10:35:24 pm »
Yeah, it's been a long time.  I pop in every fifteen million years and try to see what's going on.

If I can't get SFC 1 to run on Win 8, I'll probably not play SFC anymore.  Oh well.

#### FCM_SFHQ_XC

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #116 on: December 26, 2012, 11:33:31 pm »
Yeah, it's been a long time.  I pop in every fifteen million years and try to see what's going on.

If I can't get SFC 1 to run on Win 8, I'll probably not play SFC anymore.  Oh well.

Like most old games new OSes present trouble, however from the sounds of it, it might be conflicting with an "App" in memory could explain why it is hanging after running fine for a few mins. you can do what you can to stop all apps, programs, and make sure only basic OS processes and the game are running. That might help. That is if it is getting stuck randomly.

If on a certain action or set of actions it hangs then that is a problem with directX across win 8 or other problems among the compiled code, doubt you can do much except play with compatibility mode and playing in lower graphic settings.

Not to mention the obvious things.. run as Admin, run setup as admin, that came with Win Vista and 7 to properly install stuff.

The best solution though is just to pull that old windows 98 computer from the closet, or find someone who does have such a old computer laying around and use that old system to keep playing your old games of the day.

Fleet Commodore, XenoCorp, ISC Fleet.

#### E_Look

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #117 on: January 02, 2013, 02:34:31 pm »
Yeeeaaahhhh... you've got a point: drag out the old Pentium that ran Win 98 or 95 and get SFC going.  But you've hit on my... um, conservative side (no, not in the H&S way) ; I'd have to get another monitor!  Who wants to continually switch connectors and mess up the DVI connector... uh, what am I talking about!?  It'd have to be a VGA port, right?

Half-fortunately, I have at least, half the distance to your solution- I still have my old, ahem... self-built, home-built... Athlon 64 box, even it looks more and more creaky by the day.  Unfortunately, the AGP video card burnt out and I had to stick in some old junky AGP card in its place, but then, since when did any of the SFCs need killer video cards?

Oh, the mess this could cause... !

Now to the next step:

I've run SFC, 1, 2, OP, and 3 almost since the day I bought each one, without the CDs.  Someone on the old boards had posted a crack for SFC 1, and I believe the others were made so that you could play standalone skirmish mode without the CD.  It still so runs on my old Athlon 64 homebrew rig.  But I found a SFC 1 crack online last night and it won't install in my new Win 8 machine.  My Win 8 is 64 bit while the crack was written for a 32 bit OS.

Now what do I do?

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #118 on: October 27, 2013, 09:47:59 am »
I have a laptop and I connect a mouse on the USB port. But since a few week I notice a problem with my mouse. Its just stop working.

I use it to like surf the net of write and the pointer on the screen stop moving, the a few second after that the red light under the mouse is off. I taught it was a problem with the UBS port, so I switch it and it keep happening. So I know its not a problem with the USB port.

I have a logitech B100.

I unplug it and put it back and it work again until it stop working. There are no specific duration between the problem, it just happen and its annoying .

#### Javora

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #119 on: October 27, 2013, 11:23:23 am »
My first guess is that the wire connecting the mouse to the PC has either a short or a partial break.  That explains why the mouse functions at times, when you move the mouse around, the wire makes a connection for a time.  Have you tried another mouse that you know works with the same USB ports?  If a working mouse has the same problems, you may have broken USB ports, bad power supply brick, or corrupted device drivers.   But IMHO the chances of anything other then a broken mouse is remote.  Hope this helps.

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #120 on: April 20, 2014, 09:50:47 pm »
I got a problem with my pc. Its slow to do about anything. It got now 3 gig of ram, I have defrag it, scan for virus and still its slow. I have about 20 gig of free space on it. Now I have the defective 128mb graphic card, I got a 64mb graphic card, but its kinda slow for the game Settlers heritage of kings. The laptop got only 1.5 gig of ram and a 128mb graphic card and it work better. Its (I think less powerfull) and yet going better. My desktop is a pentium 4 3.40Ghz from Dell. Its not new and can't find a use computer equal or superior to it in cpu power.

So I was wondering what could it be that is slow to anything I do. Is it possible that its spyware? if so what free and fully working software I can use? Or anything I can do?

I'm tired of putting money in it. I change a defective dvd reader, I keep changing the graphic card because they are defective (well I don't have to pay for it) and I add some ram and yet its just a bit faster, but not as fast as this laptop.

A laptop is limited, can only add ram and bigger HD, maybe put a dvd burner. Can't do anything for the graphic card.

I did find a AGP I think graphic card of 512meg for like 65\$ new, but the problem is should I buy it or try to find something else to replace my desktop instead?

#### Javora

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #121 on: April 20, 2014, 11:48:38 pm »
At this point IMHO I'd save the money towards a new PC.  Otherwise that thing is likely to nickel and dime you.  BTW how old is your hard drive?

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #122 on: April 21, 2014, 06:38:37 am »
Well I buy that computer in December 2012. Its a Dell Dimension 8300. Its not new so I don't know how hold it is.

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #123 on: April 21, 2014, 07:25:09 am »
This is a computer that I have see. It got a cassette tape on it, a CD player, something to do with TV, a cigarette lighter and a cup older (both working) and a micro ship reader for the pictures.

Don't know what's in it, but its weird tough.

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #124 on: April 21, 2014, 04:13:35 pm »
Must be an MSGM branded machine.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #125 on: April 28, 2014, 07:42:38 am »
here the info on it. For the price I can go ask him.

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #126 on: June 07, 2016, 06:39:37 pm »
Bad new. Saturday my computer just stop working. I did heard bad sound from one or both HD some days before it happen, I was going to do a back up, manage to save my bookmark and a folder with images and stories before the second HD disapear from the registry. It no longer show that it was there, I try to reboot, but the com wont go to the bios. I can heard and fel the main HD move, but it wont boot. No display, no audio signal, nothing.

I got two HD, a 450 or 500 gig and a 200 gig from Maxtor. this one was the only HD on the old computer and was kinda running fine.

So I got stock or lost 700 gig of data. Friday I have someone who will check it. I manage to get a old Intel Celeron with 1.5 gig of ram with Win XP. (I prefer XP to win 7, so much easyer to use)

But if the motherboard (well maybe the bios) need to be replace I don't have that money. This backup is too old to run Diablo 3 and any newer games. Just not sure what I can do ?

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #127 on: June 11, 2016, 10:02:26 am »
Well everything indicate that its the motherboard that is finish, the guy try another video card, no signal, he try with only one ram, no reaction, no HDs, no reaction.

I know that the rams are OK since I put them in my sister's com and now its 4 gig instead of 2.

I will have to save money to get a good computer so I can run Diabo3

Now I have a OLD Pentium D, with 1.5 gig of ram, 80 gig of HD. All I can do is play old games and continue writing my stories.

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #128 on: April 08, 2017, 06:04:39 pm »
It seem that my main computer having problem after I clean it up with a can of air. When I'm on the net, I got black that cover a lot of the page. I move the cursor and seem to be able to see part of the page (any page do that)

The motherboard is 7 years old, don't know about the cpu, I need to test the ram, but the HDDS are ok, I have scan them last mont and the all green.

I don't know if the video card might be dying, so I could use the one on the mother board to see. But that would mean I have to spend money on another video card.

I have one in mind that would be for my next computer.

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #129 on: June 01, 2017, 12:41:04 pm »
Check to make sure that when cleaning the system you didn't move cables to be too close to any of the circuit boards.  Also make sure all your boards are firmly seated.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #130 on: June 07, 2017, 09:43:32 am »
I got a old Intel Celeron D and the fan on the cpu is noisy, mostly when I turn it on.

It run fast and slowdown a bit, I clean it but the fan is still noisy, so its annoying and I can't let it on. I use it for writing or at lest I want to.

Any idea what I can do to fix it?

#### Nemesis

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #131 on: June 07, 2017, 01:37:16 pm »
I had the same problem with an Athlon once.  I had an old heat sink/fan combo and just swapped the fans.  Easier than doing the whole thing if you have an old one handy or can get one.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

#### Don Karnage

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##### Re: PC Troubleshooting...
« Reply #132 on: June 15, 2017, 11:33:31 am »
I don,t have that. A few power cord and a old 20 gig HD

How does that part work?