SFC 4 Project

[Capt_Pestalence_XC]

Wow, interesting. A friend pointed me back at this site - feel like I haven't been here in ages.

Welcome Back

Sure seems like you have quite a bit of help coming in from the community on this one. A thought or two I had from the fellow who mentioned ST: Supremacy. I like the idea of open source - a lot of what was stated - however, that may not be available for SFC4. As I recall, ADB picked up the license to do SFB on the cheap - before Paramount figured out what they had in their inventory. The rights to do SFC at all was sort of a miracle in that the groups finally agreed to do anything and not continue to argue. I do not know, at all, what happened to the SFC1/2/OP/3 rights although I remember the names of some of the people who had full code access (like Mags!)...but I suspect they're still locked up a little between ADP & Paramount. I wouldn't even be surprised if Activision (or their successor) still had a piece.

MagnumMan gave Frey the SFC II : EAW Source Code

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163376333.0.html

Second, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole SFC4 project weren't much more than a tweak/update of one of the earlier generations of the series. Basically, they work. Why reinvent the wheel if you've got something that meets the technical criteria. I've always felt that's been why the modding community did so well with this game...and how things like simply re-writing the shiplist worked.

SFC 4 is using the EAW source for the primary game systems, however much more is going to be added.. not just for looks, but functionality, bugs, etc..

That doesn't mean vast sections wouldn't be updated/altered. Flatfile databases just plain stink for performance - I believe that was the point of the late conversion attempt to using MySQL for the Dynaverse play.

Keep in mind, these are just my guesses from information that was current...oh...4 or 5 years ago.

Sadly, my relevant credentials are limited to having been a Taldren beta tester (and then one of the few in the Activision Visioneer program)...
I have no idea if I'll make the time to play this game, however, I can guarantee I'll buy the darn thing just to support the effort. I can't even guess how many thousand(s) of hours I put into playing back when these games were live.

I do have one request/suggestion. I suspect you're probably already on this. My opinion was that EAW and then OP was pretty much complete from a SFB point of view. The only real missing component was the Dynaverse. Yeah, it's there - and it works - we all remember the problems. Loved it when it was up - but frankly, the dynaverse really was just an enhancement of the campaign/single player system.

Dynaverse.net recieved the Directory servers from Taldren before Taldren closed as well as integrating Taldren's forums into our own.. Dynaverse.net is basically the sanctioned home for the Starfleet Command game series.. Activision even turned over the directory servers for SFC 3 to D.Net.

all the servers are online and people can host their own servers, all the client or server admin needs to do is apply the Dynaverse Directory Server Fix for the respective game which is located in our Downloads section in order to rejoin the Dynaverse.. However Dynaverse is only XP compatible.. Vista lags severely on the D2.. D3 is uneffected and will work on vista just fine.

This is the area where the game would shine - this is the point that would re-sell me on the game. Design and build a multiplayer campaign system along the lines of the best community driven efforts (not dynaverse) - I mean the actual campaigns. Remember Starlance? GamerZ? Design a system that allows the flexibility of providing that kind of campaign mode AND then the option of a much more dynamic Dynaverse type approach.

Nax

there are several ideas like that floating around in the public development forum area .. look at the main bord directory and enter the SFC 4 section, then go into the Public Development sub forum and start reading the ideas, and post your own thoughts there.. development is coming from that area.

[Verroc]

I'm in my degree year, of Games Software Development. My programming prob isn't at the required level yet, however we program in C++ and C#. We also study games design, development, marketing and testing in detail. If i could help with anything i'd be more than happy to.

[SrCpt_SFHQ_XC]

I'm in my degree year, of Games Software Development. My programming prob isn't at the required level yet, however we program in C++ and C#. We also study games design, development, marketing and testing in detail. If i could help with anything i'd be more than happy to.

Send in an application

If you would like to help out with this project, please fill out the form below and submit it to frey@xenocorp.net. All information is required.  Your name and address will be kept confidential and are only required to send the required paperwork.

The current plans on the table have the project being written in either C++ or C#, so programmers who would like to join the team must be fluent with the C/C++ language.

Name:
Address:
Phone# :

Job (IE: Programmer):
Skills (IE: C++/SQL):

Contact Email:

MSN Messenger (If applicable):

Please include a piece of sample of your work as an attachment.

[Scrag]

I just read this been deployed overseas for a while....
Holy Crap!!!!!
Keep charging - I wish I had the skill set you guys need but all I can do is standby to buy the game when it comes out. 
Outstanding.

[toasty0]

I just read this been deployed overseas for a while....
Holy Crap!!!!!
Keep charging - I wish I had the skill set you guys need but all I can do is standby to buy the game when it comes out. 
Outstanding.

No purchase will be required.

[F9thCenturus]

I just read this been deployed overseas for a while....
Holy Crap!!!!!
Keep charging - I wish I had the skill set you guys need but all I can do is standby to buy the game when it comes out. 
Outstanding.

No purchase will be required.

I believe when he said to keep charging, he meant to charge forward, as in to keep it up and keep going forward with the project.  Not to charge for the product when done.

[Ramagar]

Hey all!

My opinion is this.  The reason SFC3 and ST Legacy were so dismal is they were dumbed down so badley and so unbalanced that gameplay was horrible.  Using SFB as a backbone to base the game off of makes so much sense because it's a tried and true system.  If you want the game to be canon consider adding the other races and creating weapons off the SFB weapon charts like the TR beams on the andro's.  Adding MORE sfb into the game would enhance gameplay by a huge factor.

1) Make the cloak if not easier to lock onto the ship a timer that the ship must uncloak and stay uncloaked for a time.  ie make it possible to remain loacked onto a cloaked ship.

2) Reduce cloaking ship costs

3) Correctly institute ECM and ECCM.  (Scouts, ECM drones, offensive EW defensive EW etc..)

4) Create diferent levels of gameplay Captains level vs Cadet level.  One level with EW and advanced rules the other with EW etc....

5) Add the other races into the game.  ie Tholians, Seltorians and Andro's.

6) Increase team size.

7) Enforce SFB loadouts on ships.  Late war = fast drones etc... BTW this will allow ships like the KCR to be around to fight the C7 etc.

  Reduce ship internals by 1/4 or 1/2.  Reduce shielding.

9) Allow for foward and reverse movement.

10) Implement the Orions properly and allow people to be able to outfit their ships with equipment.  Give the non-engine doubled Pirates their +2 ECM.


You get the idea.  I think that making the game MORE like SFB alot of the issues will work themselves out.  The unbalancing factor is when someone arbitrarilly decides what is balanced and not balanced.  Deciding canon is more important than balanced gameplay...a HUGE nono.  SFB has been around for bleems and SFC for all it's flaws was WAAAYYYYY better than sfc3 or ugghhh Legacy.


Ramagar-iCoP

[EmeraldEdge]

Man, heard about this on a completely unrelated forum and had to come check it out.  I'll give it a look over, but I might be willing to help with music, art, or voice overs.  If it's pans out, I don't know if I could contain myself.

[Scott_Bruno]

Hey all!

My opinion is this.  The reason SFC3 and ST Legacy were so dismal is they were dumbed down

Thanks! And I'm sure the last couple years' worth of whatever work you do were complete sh*t.


Anyway, I think this is a great idea. My only real regret over the timeline of that company was that the code wasn't released to you guys sooner. When Taldren went down it did so still owing a lot of its people money, so I truly expected to see the code appear on the 'net the very same day. If I wasn't so sh*tfaced that night at the office I woulda' done it myself, but me & Ortiz were hitting that 151 pretty hard. Oof.

So yeah, it was trippy to find this news because I was just playing around with the idea of doing a space combat game myself. Well ok, I got a little further than 'playing around'. I'd offer to help but to be honest I don't remember a damn thing about how it works... except that some of it was needlessly cryptic, and that some of it was done by an angry, angry man.
 


 

[F9thCenturus]

Done by an angry, angry man?  That's why when I used to test out a ship in SFC3 my first officer at the time constantly insulted me and threatened to superglue my toilet seat to my butt.   

J/K

But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.

Oh, and one more thing.  I like SFC3.  Wish it had the chance for further development before release, but that's Assavision's fault.

[Ravok]

Done by an angry, angry man?  That's why when I used to test out a ship in SFC3 my first officer at the time constantly insulted me and threatened to superglue my toilet seat to my butt.   

J/K

But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.

Oh, and one more thing.  I like SFC3.  Wish it had the chance for further development before release, but that's Assavision's fault.

 I liked SFC 3 as well and agree. I honestly don't think it was given a chance to shine.

 If the Comunity had as much,will to mod it, and redo the ship list as they did with OP. It would have turned out to be a better game.

[F9thCenturus]

If only we had the SFC3 game code and some of the original people that worked on the SFC3 code, well, imagine the possibilities.

[Ravok]

If only we had the SFC3 game code and some of the original people that worked on the SFC3 code, well, imagine the possibilities.

 I have!! I wish!!! With all the genius we have here, it would become a thing to behold.

 That was one (Of many) of Craptivisions big mistakes, Pooh-poohing the Comunity, and all of the knowledge,and expertice here.

[Scott_Bruno]

Done by an angry, angry man?  That's why when I used to test out a ship in SFC3 my first officer at the time constantly insulted me and threatened to superglue my toilet seat to my butt.   

Heh

Oh, and one more thing.  I like SFC3.  Wish it had the chance for further development before release, but that's Assavision's fault.

No, it's really not. Up until the squabble over that patch, you can blame us for everything that was wrong with that game. Any reports to the contrary were damage control -- or to be blunt about it, bullsh*t. The Powers That Be'd (quasi-humorous past tense) were pulling people off of SFC3 left and right to go to work on Black Hole -- I mean Black 9 -- all along. Hell dude, I don't even think I was on SFC3 when it shipped. It might only have been Dave F. at that point and I know he gave it all the love he could. Don't blame Activision.

[Ravok]

Done by an angry, angry man?  That's why when I used to test out a ship in SFC3 my first officer at the time constantly insulted me and threatened to superglue my toilet seat to my butt.   

Heh

Oh, and one more thing.  I like SFC3.  Wish it had the chance for further development before release, but that's Assavision's fault.

No, it's really not. Up until the squabble over that patch, you can blame us for everything that was wrong with that game. Any reports to the contrary were damage control -- or to be blunt about it, bullsh*t. The Powers That Be'd (quasi-humorous past tense) were pulling people off of SFC3 left and right to go to work on Black Hole -- I mean Black 9 -- all along. Hell dude, I don't even think I was on SFC3 when it shipped. It might only have been Dave F. at that point and I know he gave it all the love he could. Don't blame Activision.

 Thanks for the info. but with all the half a$$ed games they have released,its second nature.

 And im pissed, they didn't give it more time to grow.

[FCM-Corbomite-XC]

...But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.

Truly! If nothing else maybe you could give them a hint at how to make the OP/SFC3-like modifications they need to make to the EAW code. Sigh, I wish just one of you had saved the OP code.

[Scott_Bruno]

...But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.

Truly! If nothing else maybe you could give them a hint at how to make the OP/SFC3-like modifications they need to make to the EAW code. Sigh, I wish just one of you had saved the OP code.

I'm not even sure if we preserved a branch of OP. Well I'm sure we would have archived it to disc at some point but Clapton only knows where that might be. As a company, our process was a little flaky sometimes. Like, for the first few weeks of its life OP existed only on my computer. Madness.

I do remember that there were some fairly fundamental changes between OP and 3. In some cases, systems were burned pretty much down to the ground in order to support the new design. Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about how we did a given thing. Without the code to refer to you'll get a bigger payoff by solving those riddles your own way.

In fact... oh boy, here we go. Ok. Even with SFC3's modability factor there were still certain things we wanted to achieve but couldn't for lack of time. We never reached total end-user mod capability. Most notably (from memory) was the weapon code... which by extension blames the overall architecture of the engine. Generally speaking we never achieved a true separation of engine and game which is why there are severe limitations in modding it. Now I think Marc did a terrific job with the refit system (Marc was one of the good guys who really cared) but even so, there's so much more you could do.

We talked about pushing certain things out into one or more "game-specific" dlls but we never got around to it. The theory was that only the generic interface & internals would live in the .exe, while all game-specific implementations would get pushed out into a .dll. Well, I'm not sure any of those discussions actually made it that far but that would have been the theory if they had.

What are you guys doing with the renderer? It's not even DirectX 9 is it? From EAW? I think hardware acceleration was even optional back then. Unfortunately I remember AFN about how the renderer works in that game. When I went to Shiny I had to purge the SFC engine from my brain to fit Shiny's in there. Taldren... render... absolute blank. Whatever, it's ancient and it's likely the whole thing has to go if you really want to make use of DX9/10.

I'm pretty sure the network code was a big pile of suck, too. That caused so many problems dude, it's not even funny. We so badly wanted to up the player limit per game. I mean come on, six people per game in the 21st f*****g century? Really? Six? I call shinanegins (is there a right way to spell that?). The network code should be cast into the hellfire from whence it came.

Oh no wait, I'm sorry. It's not the network that came from yonder hellfire. It was that mu********ing UI... that blood-sucking, soul-stealing thing called QUIL, and all its minion code that came with it. Wow, I had totally blocked it out. My advice? Dispose of it. As UI theories go, QUIL is right up there with the flat earth people. I mean, anything that begins by hacking some commercial app's file format probably isn't going to end well, you know?

Have you guys considered leveraging existing technology with free licenses that would be 100% compatible with your project? Like, using Ogre as the renderer or something. Ogre is seriously f*cking over-engineered if you ask me (and I realize you didn't) but, I can almost see in my head right now how you could adapt it to SFC fairly easily. And poof, you have a cross-platform renderer.

Man, maybe it's because I just burned a doob but suddenly the idea of turning out an SFC with modern visuals just gave me geekwood.

Damn you guys for making me think about this stuff! 

[toasty0]

Hot damn, that was a fun read. Thanks dude!

[Ravok]

...But in all honestly, hell, if you can program, trust me, the SFC4 project needs you.

Truly! If nothing else maybe you could give them a hint at how to make the OP/SFC3-like modifications they need to make to the EAW code. Sigh, I wish just one of you had saved the OP code.

I'm not even sure if we preserved a branch of OP. Well I'm sure we would have archived it to disc at some point but Clapton only knows where that might be. As a company, our process was a little flaky sometimes. Like, for the first few weeks of its life OP existed only on my computer. Madness.

I do remember that there were some fairly fundamental changes between OP and 3. In some cases, systems were burned pretty much down to the ground in order to support the new design. Honestly I wouldn't worry too much about how we did a given thing. Without the code to refer to you'll get a bigger payoff by solving those riddles your own way.

In fact... oh boy, here we go. Ok. Even with SFC3's modability factor there were still certain things we wanted to achieve but couldn't for lack of time. We never reached total end-user mod capability. Most notably (from memory) was the weapon code... which by extension blames the overall architecture of the engine. Generally speaking we never achieved a true separation of engine and game which is why there are severe limitations in modding it. Now I think Marc did a terrific job with the refit system (Marc was one of the good guys who really cared) but even so, there's so much more you could do.

We talked about pushing certain things out into one or more "game-specific" dlls but we never got around to it. The theory was that only the generic interface & internals would live in the .exe, while all game-specific implementations would get pushed out into a .dll. Well, I'm not sure any of those discussions actually made it that far but that would have been the theory if they had.

What are you guys doing with the renderer? It's not even DirectX 9 is it? From EAW? I think hardware acceleration was even optional back then. Unfortunately I remember AFN about how the renderer works in that game. When I went to Shiny I had to purge the SFC engine from my brain to fit Shiny's in there. Taldren... render... absolute blank. Whatever, it's ancient and it's likely the whole thing has to go if you really want to make use of DX9/10.

I'm pretty sure the network code was a big pile of suck, too. That caused so many problems dude, it's not even funny. We so badly wanted to up the player limit per game. I mean come on, six people per game in the 21st f*****g century? Really? Six? I call shinanegins (is there a right way to spell that?). The network code should be cast into the hellfire from whence it came.

Oh no wait, I'm sorry. It's not the network that came from yonder hellfire. It was that mu********ing UI... that blood-sucking, soul-stealing thing called QUIL, and all its minion code that came with it. Wow, I had totally blocked it out. My advice? Dispose of it. As UI theories go, QUIL is right up there with the flat earth people. I mean, anything that begins by hacking some commercial app's file format probably isn't going to end well, you know?

Have you guys considered leveraging existing technology with free licenses that would be 100% compatible with your project? Like, using Ogre as the renderer or something. Ogre is seriously f*cking over-engineered if you ask me (and I realize you didn't) but, I can almost see in my head right now how you could adapt it to SFC fairly easily. And poof, you have a cross-platform renderer.

Man, maybe it's because I just burned a doob but suddenly the idea of turning out an SFC with modern visuals just gave me geekwood.

Damn you guys for making me think about this stuff! 

 Damm man fire another one up, and keep me thinking!! This is getting me excited as heck !!

 And Thanks!!

[Czar Mohab]

I rarely have much of value to contribute.

But to answer your question,

I call shinanegins (is there a right way to spell that?).

"shenanigans"

Czar "Sure is a right way to spell that," Mohab

[FCM-Corbomite-XC]

Hot damn, that was a fun read. Thanks dude!

I second that!! 

I'm pretty sure the network code was a big pile of suck, too. That caused so many problems dude, it's not even funny. We so badly wanted to up the player limit per game. I mean come on, six people per game in the 21st f*****g century? Really? Six? I call shinanegins (is there a right way to spell that?). The network code should be cast into the hellfire from whence it came.

Couldn't agree more. We want at least ten per side.

Oh no wait, I'm sorry. It's not the network that came from yonder hellfire. It was that mu********ing UI... that blood-sucking, soul-stealing thing called QUIL, and all its minion code that came with it. Wow, I had totally blocked it out. My advice? Dispose of it. As UI theories go, QUIL is right up there with the flat earth people. I mean, anything that begins by hacking some commercial app's file format probably isn't going to end well, you know?

You have no idea how much trouble this has caused us. There is a whole thread devoted to cracking it. AFAIK they barely scratched it.



Seriously though, anything you could do to help, I mean anything, would be greatly appreciated. We might even be able to get up a collection to pay you for your time (assuming that's legal). Please contact Frey or Pestalence on these boards. They are the project head and manager.

Thanks for coming by Scott! Wow, Dave and Scott in one week. We were blessed! 

[Scott_Bruno]

The next one who says the word 'pay' gets a torpedo for his trouble; I would never take a dime from you people. By the end, and like most people, I hated the company. But I always loved this game.

Also, I forgot that my normal, sailor-inspired speech patterns were against the forum rules here. By way of apology I’ll have myself agonized later.

To be honest, about a year ago Frey did ask me if I would be interested and I passed. It was a little bit because I wasn't sure of the legal situation, a little bit because I was really fed up with the game industry at the time and I couldn't fathom taking more work home with me, and a little because I didn't think I wanted to do it if it was just going to be the Mother of All Mods rather than a full-tilt project.

Part of me (a few parts) would love to tear into it and replace the whole darn renderer. So much has changed since then and the thought of applying what we’ve learned to SFC is very exciting to me. One of the truly neat things about a space game is that most of the world is empty space. You’re not spending all that time drawing walls, trees and waving blades of grass. You don’t have a screenful of human-ish skeletons to update. You can therefore go hog-wild on the relatively few things you are drawing; especially today, with the state of hardware being what it is.

I don’t know. I don’t know what the plan calls for but it seems too exciting not to go for it.

[Ravok]

The next one who says the word 'pay' gets a torpedo for his trouble; I would never take a dime from you people. By the end, and like most people, I hated the company. But I always loved this game.

Also, I forgot that my normal, sailor-inspired speech patterns were against the forum rules here. By way of apology I’ll have myself agonized later.

To be honest, about a year ago Frey did ask me if I would be interested and I passed. It was a little bit because I wasn't sure of the legal situation, a little bit because I was really fed up with the game industry at the time and I couldn't fathom taking more work home with me, and a little because I didn't think I wanted to do it if it was just going to be the Mother of All Mods rather than a full-tilt project.

Part of me (a few parts) would love to tear into it and replace the whole darn renderer. So much has changed since then and the thought of applying what we’ve learned to SFC is very exciting to me. One of the truly neat things about a space game is that most of the world is empty space. You’re not spending all that time drawing walls, trees and waving blades of grass. You don’t have a screenful of human-ish skeletons to update. You can therefore go hog-wild on the relatively few things you are drawing; especially today, with the state of hardware being what it is.

I don’t know. I don’t know what the plan calls for but it seems too exciting not to go for it.

 Scott if you can find the time,,and the will PLEASE ! , Do it, I would truly to see your genius unleashed.

 Truly!! I don't even have words eloquent enough to express myself. It would be a dream come true for all of us.

[toasty0]

I'm not sure where things stand, but with you onboard I know the project would be complete. 

[Scott_Bruno]

Well it's not up to me. It's not my game or my plan and I have no idea what they have in mind. All I'm saying is, I'm willing to help out.

[marstone]

You have no idea how much trouble this has caused us. There is a whole thread devoted to cracking it. AFAIK they barely scratched it.

I have alot of it figured out so far the Q3 part, I think the Quil part is coded in the main program somewhere or in the chernobyle box part.

working on the RLE of the images now.  Slow, slow.

But still no word if it is all for naught when SFC4 does come out.

[Scott_Bruno]

You have no idea how much trouble this has caused us. There is a whole thread devoted to cracking it. AFAIK they barely scratched it.

I have alot of it figured out so far the Q3 part, I think the Quil part is coded in the main program somewhere or in the chernobyle box part.

working on the RLE of the images now.  Slow, slow.

But still no word if it is all for naught when SFC4 does come out.

I'm not sure if we even had the source. I thought the real bowels of SWIL lived in a library or two that we linked with. I could be wrong; it's been quite a while. There was some kind of goofy wrapper added later on that really didn't change anything, but that would have been SFC3 code anyway.