Topic: Pitch an idea: Community-driven / "Open-Source" Bash Kit

[FoaS_XC]

A decision has been made regarding the mapping of saucers. Right now I have four different saucers: the 100% (ie: the one the size of the enterprise's saucer), the 150% (the one you find on the star league), the 200%, and the 50% (like on the Okinawa).

This is my "Beta" version of the mapping"

 - Blue = 200%
 - Green = 150%
 - Yellow = 100%
 - Red = 50%

Right now they are all mapped so they use a 1024x256 texture. That was done so that sizes of details are uniform. However, I have decided to split it up properly. They will now each take up the maximum amount of room possible on different sizes textures. However, the scale between the different saucers will remain uniform. If this doesn't make sense to you - simply trust me.

[FoaS_XC]

Question.

For Battleships, would a texture that is 2048x512 be ridiculous? I know I have no problems running such sized maps (I've run 4x4096x4096 before), but I want to get a feel for what you guys think.

[Starfox1701]

Well it depemds on how much biger the BB is then the DN. Mars is about 550m so its not much bigger then Star League; but Yamato is well over 800m. to need a texture that size the BB saucer would need to nearly twice the size of the DN saucer.

[Kreeargh]

You are putting allot of thought and work into this, and your ideas are excellent, the quality of work is great. I hope your not wasting your time though mate. Either way, good luck with it 

No one In the SFC community has put out as many videos Teaching others how to do stuff.  FoaS_XC you are not waisting your time!!

[FoaS_XC]

Thanks kreeargh It's actually been a lot of fun to try and come up with this system.

Btw, guys, I am trying to come up with some sort of naming convention for saucers, secondary hulls, etc. The problem is coming up with something that will cover as many variants as possible while still telling people what they are working with. Much like I did for nacelles: LN series textures or pieces are compatible with other LN series pieces or textures, or PB series will be compatible with PB. I need something that will also indicate the same for saucers, bodies, pylons, etc.

BTW: Here's what I've got so far for the saucer's naming convention

"Scr-140-UPE-C"

Scr = Saucer
140 = Breadth of saucer (telling you the general size of the saucer, allows for smaller and bigger variants, like the Half-size on the Okinawa or the 150%-connie-sized on the Star League
UPE = "Utopia Planetia model E" (basically, a series name, kind of like the LN of the nacelles; UPEs will have common textures and parts; TOS Saucers might be called CYN for "Copurnicus Yards model N" or somesuch. Obviously, these are pretty made up, but I'm going from barebones here.)
C = Variant, for example, the Miranda might be called "C" for "Combined Hull" (ie: a combined primary and secondary hull functions), something like the Saladin might have "DS" for Deflector + Top-side Shuttlebay.

Thoughts?

[Bernard Guignard]

Thanks kreeargh It's actually been a lot of fun to try and come up with this system.

Btw, guys, I am trying to come up with some sort of naming convention for saucers, secondary hulls, etc. The problem is coming up with something that will cover as many variants as possible while still telling people what they are working with. Much like I did for nacelles: LN series textures or pieces are compatible with other LN series pieces or textures, or PB series will be compatible with PB. I need something that will also indicate the same for saucers, bodies, pylons, etc.

BTW: Here's what I've got so far for the saucer's naming convention

"Scr-140-UPE-C"

Scr = Saucer
140 = Breadth of saucer (telling you the general size of the saucer, allows for smaller and bigger variants, like the Half-size on the Okinawa or the 150%-connie-sized on the Star League
UPE = "Utopia Planetia model E" (basically, a series name, kind of like the LN of the nacelles; UPEs will have common textures and parts; TOS Saucers might be called CYN for "Copurnicus Yards model N" or somesuch. Obviously, these are pretty made up, but I'm going from barebones here.)
C = Variant, for example, the Miranda might be called "C" for "Combined Hull" (ie: a combined primary and secondary hull functions), something like the Saladin might have "DS" for Deflector + Top-side Shuttlebay.

Thoughts?

I like the idea that the number matches the ship dia but what if you want to create a saucer with  a 3 or 4 deck edge but keep the same
140 m dia I guess that is where the Letter series  or put  - Number for number of decks on the edge portion so
you could have the following

"Scr-140-4-UPE-C"

Just a suggestion

[Starfox1701]

I would go with somthing that notes the first ship that used it like SCR-Ca-1700r-140. Miranda would be SCR-Cl-1864-140. Star League would be SCR-DN-2101r-210.

[FoaS_XC]

I considered the idea, but we all know how hairy and conflicting registries can get in a hurry - consider that FASA has one system, Canon has another, SFB has yet another, etc.

[FoaS_XC]

Sorry Bernard, I thought I replied to you but I never hit post and opened another tab

I think a deck count in the name would be superfluous. The way that the maps are set up, the saucer rims are in scale with each other. If you were to thicken the saucer by say, 200% - you'll have to stretch the UVs on the rims to suit. That means that the rim textures from other UPEs can't be used (you'll have to make a new model, say UPH; which is fine). A thickening of the saucer might be better of being a new Model - BUT: this means that the top and bottom textures can still be used on your UPH model.

But then again: consider the constellation: It uses the top and bottom (but not the rims) of the UPE. It has new rims that will need a new texture - so does that mean that it should be part of the UPE run or a new model (say, UPT). Same goes for the miranda. It uses all the same parts/textures as the UPE, but with a new additional part. Should it use

[Adonis]

But then again: consider the constellation: It uses the top and bottom (but not the rims) of the UPE. It has new rims that will need a new texture - so does that mean that it should be part of the UPE run or a new model (say, UPT). Same goes for the miranda. It uses all the same parts/textures as the UPE, but with a new additional part. Should it use

Actually, the Constellation uses two dorsal sections of the Connie, one for dorsal and one for ventral.

[FoaS_XC]

Ah, correction noted. Thanks

[atheorhaven]

I like the idea of this, will certainly make it easier for kitbashing, and if the textures are all mapped the same, it means that you know what textures you're looking for if you're swapping parts from eras.

So you're taking a CV-era saucer and mixing it with UPE parts, you know that you need to change those CV textures to UPE to have them mix smoothly... and vice versa. 

No more phull1, FVCA-1 stuff.. just maybe shull-cvn1.bmp swapped for shull-upe1.bmp

[FoaS_XC]

Alright folks - bit of an update. I reworked the saucer rims texture: The primary reason for which is I wanted to expand the "dead space" between the different parts of the UVs. The reason for this is to allow areas of added UV data between layers. Consider the churchill. The aft quarter of the saucer is taller than the rest of the rim space. I want to be able to allow for that and any other sort of added doodads and what not.

Work today was a pain, and tomorrow will likely suck as well. You'll probably have to wait until Wednesday for the next major bit of information.

[Starfox1701]

no paycheck no mod fund I can wait.

[FoaS_XC]

Indeed.

Actually, tonight I'm having a bout of insomia, so it looks like I'll be able to get some work done on it. I did go ahead and mess with the UVs of the saucers. I'm sure people will scream at me for wasted UV space, but it's a necessary evil. Give me a minute and I'll post a quick template to show what's going on in the texture.

[FoaS_XC]

Okay, here's what I've got for the texture templates. The Non-expansion quarters are where UVs lie on the standard (Connie) saucer. Like I said, I added spaces (expansion areas) for where you may want to add to the texture for your own custom saucer. A good example, again, is the churchill. With the thicker saucer in the rear of the saucer, you can add the UVs for that thicker part to the "Rear Quarter Expansion Area" for seamlessness. The texture size is now 1024x512 instead of 1024x256.

[FoaS_XC]

Here's the texture that I've made for the rims.

scr-140-UPE-rims


EDIT: My mistake, I put a rim in the wrong place.

[Starfox1701]

Looking good from here. Are you going to have rim RCS thrusters?

[FoaS_XC]

They are on the top and bottom textures. I was tempted to try for some that extend on to the rim, but I knew that I couldn't get the pixels to line up to my satisfaction. People are welcome to try to with the bashkit when its out, though.

[Starfox1701]

Don't know if you need any more but I ran across thess on Drex files and thought they would make good reference pics.