Topic: What ever Happened to the Consitution and what is the difference between the Con  (Read 54978 times)

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Offline Age

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What ever happened to the Constitution classes I read everything there is on alphawikia and it really doesn't say except they were in service 20 more years after there major refit?

What really is the Enterprise A a new class or is it the renamed Yorkown alphawikia doesn't say much on this.It does seem different than all the other refits?

What is the difference between these ships and the Constellation class?What do you believe or your thoughts or interpretet?

The first two are more conjucture questions.I am just missing that old stlye of Trek these days.

Offline knightstorm

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Constitution class ships remained in production until the 2280s.  Following the TMP refit, new ships were built to the updated configuration.  The A was a newly built constitution class ship which was renamed Enterprise following Kirk's trial.  The TNG technical manual assigned the name Yorktown to it.  Being a later build, it incorporated the fifteen years worth of technological improvements.  There were still a few constitution class ships in service as late as the 2360s as evidenced by the wreckage seen in the Best of Both Worlds and the DS9 episode The Sound of Her Voice.  The constellation class is a completely different class as represented by the Stargazer.

Offline Panzergranate

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According to the Franz Joseph - Starfleet Techincal Manual (one which SFB and SFC has its core based) there were 12 x Constitution Class cruisers originally.

10 were actually new builds and two were rebuilds of previous similar classes (1017 Constellation (formally Horizon Class) and 1371 Republic (Republic Class))

In TOS the Republic is hinted at being a cadet training ship for final year academy students.

A series of command cruiser versions (Endeavour Class) followed and also the more combat orientated Achenar and Tikopai classes. In TOS and ENT the 1764 Defiance is an Achenar Class cruiser.

The Enterprise A is listed as of the Enterprise Class, which defines the rebuilt Constitution / Achenar / Tikopai Classes. The Enterprise A was formally the USS Levant (Achenar Class)
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Offline knightstorm

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Franz Joseph's technical manual isn't canon.

Offline Czar Mohab

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Franz Joseph's technical manual isn't canon.


Agreed. Though, it is a "good fun" read that is more fun than anything else. Portions were used as screen and/or audio filler in ST1 through 6, making those portions, and only those portions, canonical.

That confused the hell out of me. I definitely need pictures of all these classes to be able to understand the differences.


Go here. Its all the same ship because, well, its all the same ship. Even in the (non-canonical) tech manual they are just sub-class variants of the parent, Constitution.

A series of command cruiser versions (Endeavour Class) followed and also the more combat orientated Achenar and Tikopai classes. In TOS and ENT the 1764 Defiance is an Achenar Class cruiser.


First its Defiant not Defiance. Second, it is Constitution Class.



The Enterprise A is listed as of the Enterprise Class, which defines the rebuilt Constitution / Achenar / Tikopai Classes. The Enterprise A was formally the USS Levant (Achenar Class)


Enterprise class refers to the bridge simulator only. No starship existed ever under this class designation. It is an admitted studio goof and this is the compromise. Please read this and this and finally this. There really isn't anything to support what the Ent-A used-to-was, if anything, prior to ST4. Except this:

Quote from: Memory Alpha
According to Gene Roddenberry, the NCC-1701-A was not a newly-constructed ship, but instead was the renamed USS Yorktown, a nod to the name of the starship in his original pitch for Star Trek. This was based on the fact that it was difficult to believe that Starfleet would build a whole new ship in such a short time, and then decommission it a short while after, and the early retirement of the Enterprise-A could be justified if the ship had been in service for many years under another name.


While not "on screen evidence", variations on this statement have floated around for decades, and I find anything coming from GR automatically more accurate and reliable than anything from Franz.

there were 12 x Constitution Class cruisers originally.

10 were actually new builds and two were rebuilds of previous similar classes (1017 Constellation (formally Horizon Class) and 1371 Republic (Republic Class))


There exists enough on screen evidence to support the 12 Constitution theory. While the Republic and Constellation may be old there is no evidence of either being of a prior class; however, this does not mean that a vessel of the same name could not have been of a different class.

In TOS the Republic is hinted at being a cadet training ship for final year academy students.


...and remained as such until at least 2374. See also DS9:"Valiant".

What ever happened to the Constitution classes I read everything there is on alphawikia and it really doesn't say except they were in service 20 more years after there major refit?

What really is the Enterprise A a new class or is it the renamed Yorkown alphawikia doesn't say much on this.It does seem different than all the other refits?

What is the difference between these ships and the Constellation class?What do you believe or your thoughts or interpretet?

The first two are more conjucture questions.I am just missing that old stlye of Trek these days.


Constitution production ended, but the ships still hung around. Republic was a trainer vessel at Earth as late as 2374. An unknown Connie was lost at Wolf 359 to the Borg. Tough little ships.

*image removed due to EAS douche-baggery*

Enterprise's sets were refurbished into things such as alien vessels, the Ent-D, etc. and new parts needed to be built, notably the bridge (the engine room in ST6 is VERY obviously a redress of the Ent-D engine room). However, The Ent-A was just a refit Constitution just like the Enterprise it replaced.

Constellation class vessels only exist because Gene wanted something non-Constitution to have been what Picard once had served on as Captain... Constellations are newer but just old enough for a "young" Captain Picard to have had some serious fun in "back in the day". Stargazer originally was Constitution but Gene changed it in mid-stride to Constellation (even re-dubbing the line Geordi spoke from one to the other).

Constellations are literally new heavy cruisers - they fill the role left by the aged and retiring Connies.

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« Last Edit: August 13, 2013, 07:54:11 am by Czar Mohab »
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Offline knightstorm

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A few things, The memory alpha post on the A is not completely accurate.  The A was obviously a new ship as evidenced by the issues it was having in STV.  Roddenbery's statement was that a new ship could not have been built between Kirk's trial and the scene where they were ferried to the Enterprise.  Furthermore, contrary to what that idiot wrote on memory alpha Starfleet was not initially planning to decommission the A until it received battle damage.  The dialogue in the film clearly indicates that the A was originally supposed to continue in service with a new command crew.  In particular there's a scene where Spock offers to recommend Valaris for the spot as first officer.  The ship would have presumably had decades of service left, although I imagine Starfleet would have changed the name again to free up Enterprise for a more advanced ship.  Finally, most of the A's sets were originally TMP sets that got converted into TNG sets when the series went into production.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2013, 02:29:06 pm by knightstorm »

Offline Czar Mohab

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A few things, The memory alpha post on the A is not completely accurate.  The A was obviously a new ship as evidenced by the issues it was having in STV.


That statement makes the refit Ent also a new construction, which it is not. The refit Ent had just as many "new ship" problems as the Ent-A. It is theoretical the Ent-A is new construction, and the argument can easily be supported for both sides, however, it is in no way obvious one way or the other.

Roddenbery's statement was that a new ship could not have been built between Kirk's trial and the scene where they were ferried to the Enterprise. 


New or used is irrelevant. I agree that it isn't a "*poof* here's your new ship fresh off the presses!" ship, but the next hull of the class that was available to have the name slapped on the hull. Also, read this and see also this thread that is exactly the same argument.


Furthermore, contrary to what that idiot wrote on memory alpha Starfleet was not initially planning to decommission the A until it received battle damage.  The dialogue in the film clearly indicates that the A was originally supposed to continue in service with a new command crew.  In particular there's a scene where Spock offers to recommend Valaris for the spot as first officer.  The ship would have presumably had decades of service left, although I imagine Starfleet would have changed the name again to free up Enterprise for a more advanced ship.


I am neither sober nor coherent enough to argue or agree with this adequately at this time.

Finally, most of the A's sets were originally TMP sets that got converted into TNG sets when the series went into production.


Agreed. The sets from ST1-3ish went to TNG... TNG was the new thing around ST4. ST4ish-6 needed everything redone, redressed from their TNG versions back to ST5-6 time frame. TNG was the set redress king, imo. Watch seasons 1-4 and count how many times you see the battle bridge, but not as the battle bridge.

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Offline knightstorm

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Roddenbery's statement was that a new ship could not have been built between Kirk's trial and the scene where they were ferried to the Enterprise. 


New or used is irrelevant. I agree that it isn't a "*poof* here's your new ship fresh off the presses!" ship, but the next hull of the class that was available to have the name slapped on the hull. Also, read this and see also this thread that is exactly the same argument.




Even if the A was the Yorktown featured in STIV, it doesn't necessarily mean that it wasn't a new ship.  Starfleet would have deployed everything they had in an effort to protect earth, even a ship that just left the shipyard.

Offline Age

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Thanks kinghtstrom and all.I do want the canon facts to it all.I rewatched Wolf 359 and did see a Const. hull in there.

It sure would of been nice if they continued using A past ST6 with different crew even though it was damaged.

I am just a little tired of seeing TNG ships atm.

Offline Age

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According to the Franz Joseph - Starfleet Techincal Manual (one which SFB and SFC has its core based) there were 12 x Constitution Class cruisers originally.

10 were actually new builds and two were rebuilds of previous similar classes (1017 Constellation (formally Horizon Class) and 1371 Republic (Republic Class))

In TOS the Republic is hinted at being a cadet training ship for final year academy students.

A series of command cruiser versions (Endeavour Class) followed and also the more combat orientated Achenar and Tikopai classes. In TOS and ENT the 1764 Defiance is an Achenar Class cruiser.

The Enterprise A is listed as of the Enterprise Class, which defines the rebuilt Constitution / Achenar / Tikopai Classes. The Enterprise A was formally the USS Levant (Achenar Class)

That confused the hell out of me. I definitely need pictures of all these classes to be able to understand the differences.
According to the Franz Joseph - Starfleet Techincal Manual (one which SFB and SFC has its core based) there were 12 x Constitution Class cruisers originally.

10 were actually new builds and two were rebuilds of previous similar classes (1017 Constellation (formally Horizon Class) and 1371 Republic (Republic Class))

In TOS the Republic is hinted at being a cadet training ship for final year academy students.

A series of command cruiser versions (Endeavour Class) followed and also the more combat orientated Achenar and Tikopai classes. In TOS and ENT the 1764 Defiance is an Achenar Class cruiser.

The Enterprise A is listed as of the Enterprise Class, which defines the rebuilt Constitution / Achenar / Tikopai Classes. The Enterprise A was formally the USS Levant (Achenar Class)

That confused the hell out of me. I definitely need pictures of all these classes to be able to understand the differences.
There are lots of videos on youtube that show these and google the ones you want and check images.

Offline Age

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Sorry for the Necro but I don't want to make samll thread.

I just want to say I got them as to the reference of the name being a D2 player.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/USS_Lafayette_%28NCC-1720%29

Quote
he Lafayette was refit to the Enterprise-subclass specifications, outfitted as a command cruiser (CC), by the 2280s decade. The ship was easily modifiable with additional technology to become the advanced command cruiser (CC+). (ST video game: Starfleet Command)


Which is actually Warrior.

Offline Don Karnage

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Constitution class came from TNG when Picard go to the holodeck and see the bridge of the Enterprise NCC 1701. Its call a starship class. So why did he sais that it was a Constitution class?

As for the Enterprise A I think that the assembling was maybe more of a refit of a "Constitution class" or that they repair of the Yorktown that was damage? by the probe. It might be that they where building another one, but why would the decommission it just after 5 years? So the theory of a repair ship seem more probable. But if they use the Yorktown and re name it Enterprise, its kinda sad for the captain and crew of that ship to lose it so they can rename it and give it to Kirk.

But for the registry number of ship before 1700, there is the Constellation, the Defiant, the other ship that crew die from a virus and maybe other one.

We don't know what happen to the other 12 "Constitution" Well the Intrepid I think that was use by Vulcan, the Defiant, well maybe not since its number was not part of the 12 originals. Same thing for the Constellation. There was one who was destroyed by the M5.

Offline knightstorm

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Constitution class came from TNG when Picard go to the holodeck and see the bridge of the Enterprise NCC 1701. Its call a starship class. So why did he sais that it was a Constitution class?

As for the Enterprise A I think that the assembling was maybe more of a refit of a "Constitution class" or that they repair of the Yorktown that was damage? by the probe. It might be that they where building another one, but why would the decommission it just after 5 years? So the theory of a repair ship seem more probable. But if they use the Yorktown and re name it Enterprise, its kinda sad for the captain and crew of that ship to lose it so they can rename it and give it to Kirk.

But for the registry number of ship before 1700, there is the Constellation, the Defiant, the other ship that crew die from a virus and maybe other one.

We don't know what happen to the other 12 "Constitution" Well the Intrepid I think that was use by Vulcan, the Defiant, well maybe not since its number was not part of the 12 originals. Same thing for the Constellation. There was one who was destroyed by the M5.

Constitution class was a behind the scenes name that was used during the production of TOS.  It was written on the schematics that Franz Joseph looked at when he was writing his manual, and popularized the name to the fans.  The first canon reference was in the TNG season one episode "The Naked Now."  As for the Yorktown in ST IV, my feeling is that if it was the A, it was a newly built ship that wasn't ready, but was pressed into service with a temporary crew due to the probe.

Offline Don Karnage

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Well its the name class show here.


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Starship class can be taken as being at a higher level to indicate any warship designed for interstellar capability.  That idea can be taken further with Enterprise class being a subset of Constitution class.  The Enterprise A is at the top level a Starship class, then Constitution then specifically an Enterprise class.  Just as Humans are also primates, mammals and vertebrates.  Depending which level you are indicating you can use any of them accurately. 
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Offline knightstorm

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During the production of TOS, Roddenbery had to constantly battle the network which wanted the show to be campier.  As a result, he made a series of compromises.  Referring to the Enterprise as a Starship class space cruiser was one of them.  The first season of TNG made it clear that the ship was a Constitution class starship.

Offline Don Karnage

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We still have to post a list of the 13 original ship and what happen to them (as far as we know it)

The Exeter I think whit the virus that kill its crew, the Defiant, the Constellation (if its part of the 13 original) and so on.

But since there are no (official data) on what happen to the fleet, beside what we have see in TOS.

Still its interesting to find info on the fleet. Speculation on the Constellation that was a Asia class and refit as a Constitution class due to his registry number, or that they just keep a old registry number and name to stick it to a Constitution class.

So we just have to swallow the pill and get on with our life  :crazy2: 

Offline knightstorm

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Speculation on the Constellation that was a Asia class and refit as a Constitution class due to his registry number, or that they just keep a old registry number and name to stick it to a Constitution class.

So we just have to swallow the pill and get on with our life  :crazy2:

The Constellation was an AMT model kit Enterprise that had its numbers re-arranged because they didn't even have the budget to create a custom decal.  The registry numbers don't make any sense.  Don't try to assign any sort of order or numbering method to them, it won't work.

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Way back, in the day as they said, some fan was pushing the idea that "NCC" stood for "Navigational Contact Code," for communications purposes, and not a "construction build order." Makes tons more sense to me. I know "naval construction contract" has become the accepted interpretation, but, if no one's ever said that in a ep/film, technically it's not canon yet...

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Typically I tend to take Franz Joseph's manual as the "Source" for the real ships and their Hull Numbers.  Everyone wants to use the "Court-Martial" wall graphic as "The Fleet"  And make them all Constitutions.  Makes NO SENSE at all.  All of those ships were listed as damaged in some way.  To me... that's the ships that are at the Starbase, or nearby.  If that's every Constitution in the fleet, then this Starbase better be pretty near the Core of the Federation otherwise someone could take a huge chunk of Federation Real Estate before the fleet could respond.

We really only know the fates of a few ships.

Intrepid: destroyed by the space amoeba.
Constellation: destroyed by Planet Killer.
Exeter: Crew killed by dehydration/crystallization virus.  I would assume that the ship could be purged and returned to duty.
Defiant: Lost in Disputed Territory with the Tholian Assembly.  Presumed intact, although pulled through some space time rift through which it would be unlikely to be recovered. (Space time rift turned out to be a dimensional and time rift that transported the Defiant into the Mirror Universe)
Excalibur: Heavily Damaged, script mentions destroyed, but is possibly salvageable from on-screen evidence.  (Given that this was the first CC assigned to me in SFC1, I've kinda taken it as my personal ship, and said that it was recovered and rebuilt)

Other ships that were not lost and mentioned.
Constitution:  Seen in Court Martial (remastered)
Lexington: Seen in The Ultimate Computer
Hood: Seen in The Ultimate Computer
Potemkin: Seen in The Ultimate Computer
Republic: Mentioned in Court Martial (Not confirmed to be Constitution, but hull number 1371, even the DS9 episode Valiant mentions the Republic, but does not mention it's class, it is ASSUMED to be Constitution Class)
Antares: Seen in Charlie X. (remastered)  I don't know if this one was ever assumed to be a Constitution or not, but the remastered episode shows that it was not.
Yorktown: Disabled by Whale Probe in STIV. (mentioned only)  Fate of crew unknown.  Given that they were making heavy use of Franz Josephs Material in the movies and the first couple of seasons of TNG, I believe it is safe to assume that it is a Constitution.  This MAY be the ship that is re-commissioned as the 1701-A, should the crew have been killed by the probe.

*Edit, originally stated Valiant for the Space Amoeba, it is actually the Intrepid, the Valiant was the 200 year old ship that was destroyed by coming in contact with the Galactic Barrier.
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