Topic: What ever Happened to the Consitution and what is the difference between the Con  (Read 54973 times)

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Offline knightstorm

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I never quite understood why the Constitution says 4 torpedo tubes

I think people are assuming that the Constitution retained the invisible TOS type torpedo tubes post rebuild.  I'm not one of those people.

As for the Miranda being a frigate, classification seems to be more fluid in starfleet, where often times the heavy cruisers of today, were last years battle cruisers.  In TNG and DS9, the Miranda seemed to be serving as DD, so in the supposed 25th century of STO, the Miranda would be a frigate.

Offline Age

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That is what I was trying to say Adam.TY.It says here it is a medium cruiser maybe at the time of TNG

Quote
The following information of specifications and defenses comes exclusively from the Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Technical Manual:

    Production Base: ASDB Integration Facility, Starbase 134 Integration Facility, Rigel VI.
    Type: Medium Cruiser.
    Accommodation: 220 officers and crew; 500 personal evacuation limit.
    Power Plant: One 1500 plus Cochrane warp core feeding two nacelles; one impulse system.
    Dimensions: Length, 277.76 meters; beam, 173.98 meters; height: 65.23 meters.
    Mass: 655,000 metric tons.
    Performance: Warp 9.2 for 12 hours.
    Armament: Six type-7 phaser emitters; two pulse phaser cannons; two photon torpedo launchers.


http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Miranda_class        source

I was mostly started this thread because of the ship I use.I wanted to see how long it would of stayed in service in some what canon role other than STFC.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2014, 06:18:55 pm by Age »

Offline Tulwar

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Going back to the original reason the Miranda was brought up, how many of them would have been included in the original 12 starships?  I mean, if the WoK script called the Miranda an older "Enterprise Class," then for the purpose of this conversation, the Constitution Class might even be more rare than we would have guessed.  At least two Constitution Class ships were taken out during TOS.  We saw 4 together at one time, so there could have been as many as 6 Mirandas.  Man, those must be some tough ships, because they reappeared in so many episodes!
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Don Karnage

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They might have only 12 Constitution class, but I don't think that Starfleet would only have those 12 ships. Mostly after loosing the Constellation, the Defiant , the Intrepid (I think, the one with the Vulcan) and the one during the Ultimate computer. So they lost like 3 ships and they will need to replace them.

They must have other smaller ship for other purposes? Well the Fasa book and SFB have other ship, the cargo Ptolemy class and destroyer Saladin class NCC 500? They must also have some transport ship for colonizing other planet?

I know about the robot ship that the ultimate computer destroyed (well it was a old dy 500 like) before they change it for another model.

Offline Tulwar

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They might have only 12 Constitution class, but I don't think that Starfleet would only have those 12 ships. Mostly after loosing the Constellation, the Defiant , the Intrepid (I think, the one with the Vulcan) and the one during the Ultimate computer. So they lost like 3 ships and they will need to replace them.

They must have other smaller ship for other purposes? Well the Fasa book and SFB have other ship, the cargo Ptolemy class and destroyer Saladin class NCC 500? They must also have some transport ship for colonizing other planet?

I know about the robot ship that the ultimate computer destroyed (well it was a old dy 500 like) before they change it for another model.

Understand, I am assuming by the WoK script that the Riliant was no kind of inferior class to the Constitution, just an older version.  That means that ships of these classes are the exact same thing for command purposes.  Once you go with information compiled from games, novels, or any other fan-made database, we are having a completely different discussion.  The Saladin is a non-canon design, so it does not exist for purposes of this discussion; however, the Oberth class did appear as a contemporary of the Big E, so mentioning that ship would be kosher.
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Age

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I really think that star Trek needs to go back to 2250s or 60s and but out couple of episodes of that era of Trek.We really don't know much about Trek of the TOS/TMP era.We know more about TNG era even more about the Ent. D say than the TOS era of Ent. Pike/Kirk.

Offline Lieutenant_Q

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The Saladin class did appear on screen in an Episode of TNG, as a technical diagram that Data was looking at (straight out of FJ's manual, no less)  So the Saladin does exist... as to whether or not it exists in the role that Franz Joseph envisioned, who knows.

Obviously the expense of building a thorough bred cruiser like the Constitution would make it difficult to simply churn out all Constitutions, there would have to be some diversity in the fleet, otherwise the Federation Treasury would be bankrupt.  There's also the question of manpower.  400 trained crewmen per Constitution doesn't seem like a whole lot, but multiply that by several hundred, and suddenly your talking about a lot of people.  Smaller ships that can do the same peace-keeping jobs, (A F-DD) is only logical.

I agree that I would love to see another TOS/TMP era series to help flesh out that time frame.  I really feel that a TMP era series was needed, there was so much of the Refitted Enterprise that we DIDN'T get to see.
"Your mighty GDI forces have been emasculated, and you yourself are a killer of children.  Now of course it's not true.  But the world only believes what the media tells them to believe.  And I tell the media what to believe, its really quite simple." - Kane (Joe Kucan) Command & Conquer Tiberium Dawn (1995)

Offline Tulwar

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I think JJ Abrams deliberately broke canon, so CBS will have license to reboot the series.  If the execs have any sense, they'll get a good set of writers together under a good director,  write a completely new ST bible, and disregard everything done before.  That ought to make for a good series.
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Tulwar

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There have been 2 JJ F#k's already, and I think he's making a 3rd.  Spiderman got so weird and stupid, because they kept making movies, and movies keep getting weirder and stupider, because they have to out-do the one before.  A television series is designed from the beginning to be a continuous operation.  The writers, and set-builders, and prop makers don't want to come up with everything at the last moment.  That mean consistency.  When an episode calls for the Enterprise to be attacked by a D7, they don't want to have to make-up the weapons and tactics.  They'd like to go over the pre-made material so they can get everything set up for the shot, then go home for the evening.  The original blueprints for the Enterprise and the D7 were not created for the fans.  They were made the writers and set builders, and prop-makers.  Heck, the D7, movie prop and model-master were built by AMT from those blueprints.

Do any of the JJ Treks show the slightest hint that the set designers and model makers had any concept of blueprints?  Movies are projects.  They are not only one-off things for the makers, but the audience is only expected to watch them once.  You can distract the audience with a little razzel-dazzel, while you do some completely impossible BS in the next frame.  By the time the audience figures it out, they've already left the theater.  Moreover, movies aren't even made for America audiences.  They compete directly with Bollywood on the international level.  While Bollywood has music and dancing, Hollywood has glitzy special effects and violence.  Personally, I'd rather see what Bollywood could do with ST than see another JJ Abrams movie.

I'm not looking forward to a new movie.  I'm looking forward to a new series.  A series has to make sense.  A movie doesn't.
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Don Karnage

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I have seen the new Spiderman vomit and its bad.

Re inventing a know story is like saying "I don't like it like that, I want to see a alternative version of it"

Its just bad.

For the Constitution class, 12 ships mean 4800 peoples. But where do you get 12 captains? From previous ships?

Also on the Constellation it was a commodore "Decker" who was in command. I'm not sure if there was other commodore or admiral who where in command of a Constitution class? Also why a commodore would be in command of a ship? Maybe like the flag ship, but the Constellation was not the flag ship.

A new Star Trek series base on the 2 new vomit might be interesting, but for me its more like a alternate universe of what we know.

I was wondering what the old Spoke will do with his life? Don't think he can go to Romulus and try to join them with the Vulcan since little Vulcan survived the destruction of their planet. He can't really return to Star Fleet command and get a new job. With his knowledge of the future, spoke might contaminated this time line. But then again maybe he did. The time line was already change after the destruction of Vulcan. He could make sure that the fed get new weapons and shield to be prepare for anything that might or will happen in this future. Like the planet killer, the giant amoeba, Vger, etc.

I said vomit instead of movie because its make me sick of re making what was know from previous movies.

Offline Corbomite

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A commodore used to be a somewhat temporary rank in the navy. Essentially it is the same rank as a rear admrial lower half, but was usually assigned to a captain in temporary charge of a small fleet or flotilla for a mission so there was no question of who is in charge. The navy doesn't use the rank anymore. I'm not sure it was even still in use during TOS. TOS used commodores exclusively until I think the third season when an actual admiral showed up or was mentioned. I assumed that they had several senior captains that either they didn't want to promote to admirals or weren't interested in desk jobs (like Commodore Mendez in "The Menagerie" or Commodore Stocker in "The Deadly Years"), so they promoted them to commodore. There was a commodore heading up the flotilla that took on M5 in "The Ultimate Computer".



EDIT: Mistyped "rear" as "real"
« Last Edit: May 24, 2014, 10:36:13 am by Corbomite »

Offline Don Karnage

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So is the "Federation class dreadnought" is in the Fasa book and I think in the Star Fleet battle. I know that the Mars class Battleship is in the Star Fleet battle game and book. But since TOS only last 3 years and they never mention those ship or class. Well the board game was created after the series, so those kind of ship would serve for a potential war?

Since the Constitution class is a Heavy Cruiser, they must have some scout ship or do they use a Constitution class for exploring?

Offline Bernard Guignard

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The Federation Class Dreadnought to the best of my knowledge is not part of the official FASA canon it was added in by fans later on.

Offline Age

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This explains about what a Commodore is Rank

Don there were more than 12 Const. at the time Kirk said that that is all there were.That is what the Constitution is designed for exploring as said in opening credits of the show.

Offline Don Karnage

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Well since the number on the hull have nothing to do with the order the ship was build, how do we know in what order those ship go?

Offline Age

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Actually. It is the Starfleet Command community who make this up.When you look at one of my posts with ship names on it it shows the Warrior as 1736 which is not right as that is Pestalence's reg number.It was assigned to me be Wanderer.

Don you wonder about the Saladin well it is canon.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Saladin_class

might find this interesting.
http://www.trekplace.com/article09.html

Offline Tulwar

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Re inventing a know story is like saying "I don't like it like that, I want to see a alternative version of it"


TOS was great, back in the 1960's.  By the mid-1970's, Space 1999 came out with more models and better sets.  In the mid 1990's the folks making SG-1 showed us what good acting, direction, and writing could do with a goofy sci-fy premise.  Today, the old ST series and movies just don't hold up to 21th Century production standards.  On top of that, with the medical science advancements I expect to see over the next few centuries, I wouldn't expect to tell the difference between 90 year old woman and a girl who just about to have her first legal serving of liquor.  Seeing old people in the time of ST TNG, just isn't realistic.  Moreover, plots have to be recycled, over and over.  I just can't see how to go on writing more ST movies and episodes without simply redoing everything with a more modern production team.

JJ Abrams understood this when he made his films.  Unfortunately, his story-lines more cannibalize the franchise than reinvigorate it.  You can't have any more episodes go to Vulcan, and Kahn had been good for one episode and one movie, but JJ supplanted both those stories.  What did Abrams add?  A really ugly version of the Big-E, a Spock/Uhura romance, and some really crumby sets.  This is not a reboot.  This is vandalism.
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Tulwar

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An atrocity. Between all the alternate timelines, Uhura has been passed around like fracking biscuits at a table. Now there's no one on that ship she hasn't screwed. I'm done! Whose next, Uhura and Kolos. Smh.

Adam

Uhura and Nurse Chapel might be interesting, but those of us who watched TOS know she only has eyes for Spock.  Oops....  Cat fight!
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Javora

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An atrocity. Between all the alternate timelines, Uhura has been passed around like fracking biscuits at a table. Now there's no one on that ship she hasn't screwed. I'm done! Whose next, Uhura and Kolos. Smh.

Adam

Uhura and Nurse Chapel might be interesting, but those of us who watched TOS know she only has eyes for Spock.  Oops....  Cat fight!

Or a threesome...

Just say'en.

Offline Don Karnage

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When did Nurse Chapel was "attracted" to Spock in TOS? Is it after the episode where they meet his future wife?

I the last vomit, Doc Mccoy was playing Doctor Frankenstein with the tribles, its like Kirk going into Romulan territory and go nag them.

Its not who they are, stop changing their personality !