*ANNOUNCMENT*

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I will no longer be making models for SFC. Taldren has no idea how to judge models.  

[MrCue]

forget taldren, do it for the good of the people, we all (i hope) love your models.

[MrCue]

Do you think LB should give up making Models?
Yes
No

[3dot14]

now now...

don't be mad. After all art judging is a very inprecise thing. Don't take a contest too personally, it's not about one winning or losing, it's about a display of models.

Don't give up, as long as someone appreciates your work, it's not in vain.

[lleggs]

there are plenty of players who enjoy modder's work I, for one, appreciate everybody who's still devoting time and energy to SFC2

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, Lets look at the some of the models that won, there is no way skinman's ship should have won with some of the other ships that were entered, and this last round, I think Rick knox and myself had some of the best ones. Im not saying that I SHOULD have won, but the one that did, should not have.  

[atheorhaven]

Quote:
now now...

don't be mad. After all art judging is a very inprecise thing. Don't take a contest too personally, it's not about one winning or losing, it's about a display of models.

Don't give up, as long as someone appreciates your work, it's not in vain.  

I'd be mad if I were him too.. he entered in some of his classic stuff in these rounds, plus new stuff that's been asked for (like that new Rommie variant based off the new one from Enterprise.. and did it in more than one round.  Not a nod, or even that much of an acknowledgement.

I'm more than annoyed as well, because my two entries never were even mentioned as being entered!  This despite being sent in the day *after* round 3 ended so that I could be sure to have it in in time for round 4.  I wouldn't have minded not winning, but I wanted to at least *see* my models as being entered...

[David Ferrell]

Quote:

Quote:
now now...

don't be mad. After all art judging is a very inprecise thing. Don't take a contest too personally, it's not about one winning or losing, it's about a display of models.

Don't give up, as long as someone appreciates your work, it's not in vain.  

I'd be mad if I were him too.. he entered in some of his classic stuff in these rounds, plus new stuff that's been asked for (like that new Rommie variant based off the new one from Enterprise.. and did it in more than one round.  Not a nod, or even that much of an acknowledgement.

I'm more than annoyed as well, because my two entries never were even mentioned as being entered!  This despite being sent in the day *after* round 3 ended so that I could be sure to have it in in time for round 4.  I wouldn't have minded not winning, but I wanted to at least *see* my models as being entered...  

I never received an entry from you, unless it was the one in the mail below:

------

Could you please re-submit in Winzip format?
 
Thanks,
 
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: Decconi@aol.com [mailto:Decconi@aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2003 1:11 PM
To: admin@taldren.com
Subject: Model Contest


http://www.nightsoftware.com/ds3/downloads/aa.rar

My USS Avatar - A for SFC3

Thanks
-----
The entry above was never resubmitted(to the best of my knowledge but hey the user didn't identify himself so maybe he did, if so it was judged).

Thanks,

Dave  

[James Formo]

Hey L B your models are awesome. From my limited efforts I know how much effort goes into em. Especially the quality ones . If you don't model for SFC it would be a great loss to the community. I'd hate to see you leave. I understand though. You gotta follow your heart man.  Good luck in your future endeavers.

I

[**DONOTDELETE**]

My heart just tells me that Taldren only picks the models by people they like. Not the ones that deserve to win. They seem to judge the models on a "friend" basis. Like Skinman, he knows some of those guys, so naturally, he won a round. DamoclesX (who is a friend of mine) is well liked by Taldren, so naturally he wins a round. Trekke runs Starfleet Universe, his ship was very good also, but naturally, he also is in the "friend" catagory" because SFU has been around since sfc1 came out.Then you have people like Myself, who Taldren DOES NOT like, Rick Knox, who Taldren DOES NOT like for different reasons.

I just happen to think that the contest was judged extremely UNFAIR. The only 2 models that won a round that deserved winning were by DamocleX (They picked the one he thought was his worste) and Trekke.

So if my specualtion is incorrect, by all means tell me, I could be blowing this all out of proportion. But I believe I have wasted my time on this contest, especially since I made 2 of the ships I entered specifically for this contest.

[Lord Vader]

Dave, That Avatar A is my Model, you should have downloaded it and looked at the readme file....hehe and sorry LB I wish you would have won, you entered soem kick ass models! I lvoe youre new promethus!! best one yet!  

[starforce2]

Where can I see pix of all the entries? I'm curious.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

in the announcment forum, that Unfortunatly, Ive been watching since friday. I'm shocked Dave Ferrel hasnt said anything to me about this. just shows how much Taldren doesnt care about the veteran modelers here. i have been making ships for this game for near 5 years. Its pretty disappointing. Nice going Taldren. Youve succefully aliented another modeler with your lack of appreciation and total disregard for the people that keep your games going.  

[3dot14]

Quote:
My heart just tells me that Taldren only picks the models by people they like. Not the ones that deserve to win. They seem to judge the models on a "friend" basis.

Due respect, you might be reading too much into this.

The last winner Viper is from Armada modding. surely you can't say he was Taldren's friend?
I am the "excutive" assitant to Trekke at SFU, does that mean i should've won a round too?

Those statements don't mean anything, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, THIS DOES.

 The Judges Don't know who did what while viewing the entries.

 

Quote:
Winners are chosen by a panel of Taldren artists. They do not know who is connected to each model and judge it based upon their own personal criteria.
-Davie Ferrell, http://208.57.228.3/ubb/Forum1/HTML/020985.html

I do feel for you, but it's just the last round has TOO MANY entries. and many of them are of the same style. (Sovereign derivations) It can have gone either way.

And also  Congratulations to Viper. I actuall DO FEEL his model deserves the win. (so does LB's Hectate. but only one can win.)  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

to be honest, I think that was only said, but not enforced. otherwise I think Rick Knox would have won this round.

[TheSkinMan]

Quote:
Well, Lets look at the some of the models that won, there is no way skinman's ship should have won with some of the other ships that were entered, and this last round, I think Rick knox and myself had some of the best ones. Im not saying that I SHOULD have won, but the one that did, should not have.  

You are a pore pore loser, for one i dont have alot of friend in Taldren hell i only talk to lordvader and xometiles dark drone and 2 you are no one to talk to say your models or any ones models are better then a nother person... this Contest was made for fun and you have terned it into a pore LB party So you did nto win, i did nto even expect to win.

If you think your models are better then mine fine your happy to thinkw aht ever you want, but to have the balles to come out and say it liek this is just wrong.
I make money off my wok and i have a BACHELOR'S DEGREE and have ben doing this work for year what do you have? what game have you worked on who have you worked for?

Like i said i dont think your one to be talking right now, i think you just need to fade back into the dark before you make your self look like even more of a pore looser then you all ready have. The END

if any one has a hard time reading this im sorry im dislexic and when i get mad it gets bad........




SkinMan  

[atheorhaven]

Quote:

I never received an entry from you, unless it was the one in the mail below:
The entry above was never resubmitted(to the best of my knowledge but hey the user didn't identify himself so maybe he did, if so it was judged).

Thanks,
Dave  

I sent in two entries, one of which I'd entered because I never did hear one way or the other as to whether or not we could enter non-Trek ships in the contest.  If it wasn't accepted because it was non-Trek, then that'd be okay as I'd entered a definitely acceptable model for the contest as well.

I entered my TARDIS and a Borg Cube, sent using the following information:

Quote:
To enter, zip up your model and mail it to admin@taldren.com. Be sure to put the words 'Model Contest' in the subject line.

And it was sent the day after round 3 wrapped up, so that I could be sure that it'd be in in time for round 4.  (I wanted to glow/damage texture the TARDIS before it went out, so I just missed round 3).

[Reptor7]

As an artist, I have entered work (paintings) in many shows. The winner sometimes causes me to arch an eyebrow LOL! But it's the act of creating that I most enjoy. If I happen to win one, that's great. If not, I'm happy to have even participated, as that's what's important anyway.

A lot of shows have the "People's Choice" award, in which the people themselves pick the work they like best. Perhaps a "People's Choice" model poll  that's sanctioned by Taldren is in order. The results may be surprising.

There were many, many good models to choose from. I've judged art myself, and it's not an easy task. Good job to all you modelers and thanks for sharing you work. Congrats to the winners!  
 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Obviously Skin Man, you havent read all of my posts. i Dont think about just myself. I think your ship that won the third round was completely unworthy compared to cleeves ship. i would have much rather lost to his model. its nothing personal, just my opinion. So you have a degree and I dont, does that mean, in your eyes, I cant have an opinion on this? I have just as much right as you do to state what i think on a PUBLIC forum. As I said, i dont care only about myself, but I DO think that the models that won round 3 and 4 were not the best. Im sorry if it hurts you that i dont think your model was the best.  

[David Ferrell]

Quote:
to be honest, I think that was only said, but not enforced. otherwise I think Rick Knox would have won this round.  

Very untrue.

To insist that you or Rick should have won, is complete arogance.  You are saying that you know better than everyone else, in particular the judges who didn't have just a jpg to judge but were allowed to go back and forth rotating the models *in game*.  In addition you have also insulted the winners (and those who didn't win but came close) because you think their work is less worthy than yours or Rick's.

This contest WAS NOT a let's appreciate those who have been around the longest or made the most posts.
This was a model contest.  If you don't agree with the results, that is your right, but you shouldn't insult others
while voicing your opinion.

Thanks,

Dave  

[David Ferrell]

Quote:
<snip>
Im sorry if it hurts you that i dont think your model was the best.  

Funny thing there LB but that's exactly the way the judges felt about your models.  

Perhaps you should think about that.

Thanks,

Dave  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well, im sorry, but by voicing my opinion, one of the results of that is going to be insulting to someone, no matter what. but as a modeller, I can see whats what, and the winners of the last 2 rounds were not the best, and there are many people here that agree with me, but dont want to lose face in front of others. thats their right, and it IS my right to disagree with the results, and im sorry, but it will offend the winners. there is no way for me to say my opinion without someone getting upset in this case, thats life, i deal with it everyday at my job. you cant sugar coat the truth.  

[David Ferrell]

Quote:
Well, im sorry, but by voicing my opinion, one of the results of that is going to be insulting to someone, no matter what. but as a modeller, I can see whats what, and the winners of the last 2 rounds were not the best, and there are many people here that agree with me, but dont want to lose face in front of others. thats their right, and it IS my right to disagree with the results, and im sorry, but it will offend the winners. there is no way for me to say my opinion without someone getting upset in this case, thats life, i deal with it everyday at my job. you cant sugar coat the truth.    

And our professional modelers who judged the constest are chop liver?

You are nothing but a spoiled child who is upset because you didn't win.  Well it wasn't even close.  Rick Knox came
close, Cleeve came close, you weren't even in the running.

See you later loser,

Dave  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

you know, Ive always noticed how the big people, like game companies in this case, like to turn what someone says against them, because they cant think of something to say or do to resolve the situation. maybe its not that  they cant , but since they are high and mighty, they just dont want to, it would be beneath them to do so.

[TheSkinMan]

Quote:
Obviously Skin Man, you havent read all of my posts. i Dont think about just myself. I think your ship that won the third round was completely unworthy compared to cleeves ship. i would have much rather lost to his model. its nothing personal, just my opinion. So you have a degree and I dont, does that mean, in your eyes, I cant have an opinion on this? I have just as much right as you do to state what i think on a PUBLIC forum. As I said, i dont care only about myself, but I DO think that the models that won round 3 and 4 were not the best. Im sorry if it hurts you that i dont think your model was the best.  

LB i think you are probly just a little kid who some day i hope will grow up and lose the ego, im not one to have a chat war on a forum with someone who  thinks thair all that. Maybe if you did nto expect to win you will not be let down when you dont. and yes cleave is one fo the best and i have alot fo respect for him, he should have ben picked . But do you see him hear doing what you are doing about it?

you gave your opinion and i respect that, I will be the grownup hear and not give my opinion for fear it will scar your modeling for life. Pluss opinions are like butts and right now yours just stinks....
But i would be happy to post some links for you to some photoshop and modeling tutorials i think would help you.. ALOT!

What it all comes down to, is you did not win,and im sorry i wish you did , so we did not have to read all this.

SkinMan  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Quote:

Quote:
Well, im sorry, but by voicing my opinion, one of the results of that is going to be insulting to someone, no matter what. but as a modeller, I can see whats what, and the winners of the last 2 rounds were not the best, and there are many people here that agree with me, but dont want to lose face in front of others. thats their right, and it IS my right to disagree with the results, and im sorry, but it will offend the winners. there is no way for me to say my opinion without someone getting upset in this case, thats life, i deal with it everyday at my job. you cant sugar coat the truth.    

And our professional modelers who judged the constest are chop liver?

You are nothing but a spoiled child who is upset because you didn't win.  Well it wasn't even close.  Rick Knox came
close, Cleeve came close, you weren't even in the running.

See you later loser,

Dave  

Thats the response I expected. you take what i say and twist it completly around to make me look worse. and excuse me, but if you are going to start calling me names now, I think that may end up being more trouble than you can ever imagine or would ever want. be careful how you address me.i never called you names, i never said that your modelers are chop liver, but since you brought it up, ive spoken with game companies that use your models as examples of WHAT NOT TO DO.

You can justify it any way you wish. im just sorry you dont see where I am comming from here. as i said before, i wasnt talking about just my stuff.

[James Formo]

I know this maybe doesn't fit with the reat of this thread but here goes.  Many contests have different levels based on experience. This model contest lumped modelers who completed there very 1st (or close to it) model with some who are semi professional. I think it was unfair to lump everyone with various experience  abd judge there models side by side.

Then the prize is books on how to model and modeling software. It is pretty obvious that the winners don't need the books and already have the software.  That is my 2 cents. I know it wasn't asked for but I consider it my right as an American to express it.  

[Moonraker]

you know im so happy that im not that active around here anymore. just listen to all of this crap...
look what a simple contest turns into now.
there were some nice models, and some not so nice ones from what ive seen.
some of the winning ships are not that fantastic and to be totally honest at the risk of being flamed for voicing my opinion like LB, had i entered such a  contest i would have expected better from taldren and the judges.

im not taking any sides here, but its just my thoughts on things...

   

[David Ferrell]

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:
Well, im sorry, but by voicing my opinion, one of the results of that is going to be insulting to someone, no matter what. but as a modeller, I can see whats what, and the winners of the last 2 rounds were not the best, and there are many people here that agree with me, but dont want to lose face in front of others. thats their right, and it IS my right to disagree with the results, and im sorry, but it will offend the winners. there is no way for me to say my opinion without someone getting upset in this case, thats life, i deal with it everyday at my job. you cant sugar coat the truth.    

And our professional modelers who judged the constest are chop liver?

You are nothing but a spoiled child who is upset because you didn't win.  Well it wasn't even close.  Rick Knox came
close, Cleeve came close, you weren't even in the running.

See you later loser,

Dave  

Thats the response I expected. you take what i say and twist it completly around to make me look worse. and excuse me, but if you are going to start calling me names now, I think that may end up being more trouble than you can ever imagine or would ever want. be careful how you address me.i never called you names, i never said that your modelers are chop liver, but since you brought it up, ive spoken with game companies that use your models as examples of WHAT NOT TO DO.

You can justify it any way you wish. im just sorry you dont see where I am comming from here. as i said before, i wasnt talking about just my stuff.  

You have called me a liar (by saying that the judges did know who they were voting on), you have now insulted our artists, (good guys that have a lot more talent than you).

You cried a few weeks ago when you didn't win and I was nice then.  Now you come and start insulting people.  All but one entry in the contest didn't win, but your attituide makes you alone a loser.

Dave  

[Brad Bowermaster]

Normally I wouldn't interfere, but this has gone too far. LB, just stop, please. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but your reasons are guided by your anger,  especially the whole friends thing. Most of us do not talk to Taldren employees out side of this forum, simply because they are busy. Do you see special, exclusive content on SFU? No, they treat us as equal as any other fan site. I've even been 'told off' by Bradley Schenck. Yes, I was a little miffed when he did that, but did I get upset and yell at him? No, because Bradley Schenck along with the rest of Taldren are hard working people, they have their bad days just like the rest of us.

Just think about it. Is this argument worth it? This thread is only making you look bad and damaging your reputation. You want to become a professional modeler, think how this post is making you look to prospective employers. Its just a contest, there will be others. So take some time off, take a breather, and clear your head. In the end, you should be modeling for yourself, not the approval of others.