Topic: SFC3 subsystem targeting  (Read 17353 times)

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Whiplash

  • Guest
SFC3 subsystem targeting
« on: January 20, 2003, 09:42:31 am »
What do you target? So far, I've only found warp core to be effective. It seems to reduce the enemy's power enough to make it worthwhile.

Do you target or not, and what? Also, what effect do you see from doing so?

W.
 

Credo Narth

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2003, 09:49:37 am »
Kinda depends. A few times, I've ended up being tractored by someone with a stronger tractor than mine. Sometimes this doesn't matter, but if they're in a warbird, and I'm in a defiant, then you can get into deep doo doo very quickly. In this case, I target and H&R his tractor ASAP.

Other than that, it's mainly warp core and impulse engines. It's easier to board them (for extra prestige) when they've got no power and no speed.

Aldaron

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2003, 10:34:54 am »
I haven't played in weeks but warp core is the main target. I mean once they have no power they can't do a damn thing but run so it's easy to take them apart at leisure. This is one reason I don't like SFC3 and subsytem targeting. It sounds like a neat feature but in practice it just unbalances the game.

Robb Stark

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2003, 12:53:31 pm »
Interesting.  I've seen this to be the case as well - the Warp Core and sometimes the Tractors are the only systems really worth targeting.

I think the problem is that the other systems are too durable.  For example, a single Quantum Torp launcher has 40 health.  You have to really hammer that thing to destroy it.  I realize that damaging it is supposed to reduce its effectiveness (so if it's down to 20 health, it's only at 50% strength... or at least I THINK tha'ts how it's supposed to work), but it still seems like it's an awfully long haul to take one system down.

This is especially true since sub-system targetting reduces your accuracy, and not all the damage from your weapon hit seems to go to the subsystem in question.  I love the concept, but I think the implementation would really be helped by reducing the health of most subsystems.  

Aldaron

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2003, 02:59:16 pm »
Raise the health of critical systems (warp core, impulse, maybe cloak, etc) and lower the other systems. This would put more emphasis on taking out weapons, tractors and transporters as opposed to the warp core which essentially takes out everything including shields.    

ghostcamel

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Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2003, 05:31:17 pm »
Quote:

Raise the health of critical systems (warp core, impulse, maybe cloak, etc) and lower the other systems. This would put more emphasis on taking out weapons, tractors and transporters as opposed to the warp core which essentially takes out everything including shields.    




That would be good, and perhaps bring back how phasers(primaries?) could only be damaged from certain arcs. I liked the positional aspect that really came to fruit after a few patches and DAC revisions.  

Corbomite

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2003, 05:44:40 pm »
Wouldn't it be easier just to lower the overall damage done to subsystems when targeted? IMO you should only get 1/3 of the total computed damage when hitting a subsystem exclusively. It also seems a shame that Taldren put so much work into a combat system that people only use about 1/10 of i.e. everyone usually goes for the warp core and nothing else. Seems to me they could have saved themselves a lot of work and just let you target the warpcore.

ghostcamel

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Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2003, 05:59:46 pm »
Yep its pretty pointless as is.

Aves

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2003, 09:05:03 pm »
While the warp core is a great choice, if I'm flying a craft with AMMs I always go after the Impulse engines.  And I often target them even if I don't have them.

This makes it easy to stay in a weak arc or even a blind spot for the rest of the battle, I just keep firing enough shots into the Impulse engine to make them immobile and then take my time with the rest...

IMHO the impulse engine is a BETTER choice (except against Borg) than the Warp Core, esp with AMMs

Whiplash

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2003, 09:27:06 pm »
Have you seen ships actually slow down significantly when you target the impulse engines? I went through a string og 6+ battles where I exclusively target impulse on some small ships, and they never slowed down at all  until the blew up. I'm not convinced it works.

W.
 

Whiplash

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2003, 09:30:26 pm »
Hey Aldaron, does your moniker come from a book or game or something? Perhaps a decade ago I was running a role-playing game and one of the players chose to name his character "Aldaron Stormclimber"...

W.
 

Alidar Jarok

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2003, 09:31:10 pm »
Against the AI, I've managed to reduce my enemy's speed from 26 to 16.  I think it was more significant than that since the shhip originally had great manuverabilty (implying it was going at half impulse) and when the warp core was grey, it could barely turn.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Alidar Jarok »

Vortox

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Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2003, 09:43:19 pm »
IMO there is only 3 major systems that worth any targetting at all.  The Warp Core, Impulse Engine, and Tractor Beam.  LOL Maybe they should just make the game with only this 3 subsystem...hahaha...lol  

theRomulan

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Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2003, 09:44:35 pm »
While your advice about the impulse engines is certainly a valid and clever idea, my point is that those very major systems are the only ones worth targetting right now.  Also, damaging subsystems usually REQUIRES an alpha strike.  I feel subsystem damage has been lacking in the last two games.  SFC2 right now has it more than SFC3, but the double internals thing kind of weakens the effectiveness of some weapons, like photons.  However, SFC2 is as good as it can be in my opinion, but SFC3 seems like it can take the subsystem damage thing to a whole new height.  

Right now, impulse enginges, warp core, the tractor beam, and the cloak are the systems that people most want to hit.  In my opinion, they are major systems, and should probably require that you slam them with alpha strikes, etc.  However, the smaller systems, like weapons, require almost the same amount of power to stun or destroy.  In SFC2, and i'm not trying to glorify the old system, mizia strikes had a pretty good effect on systems.  If people laid the phaser shots down on me one at a time, i would witness many of my weapons randomly getting knocked out according to the arc.  IT was good, I appreciated seeing my weapons getting damaged in the process.  In SFC3, targetting the hull will usually get you stun affect on weapons after penetrating the armor, but when you actually target a weapon system, it seems like only an alpha strike will provide you with the results that you need. In the other games, I would get mizia attacked, even with my armor, and witness 3 of my phasers get knocked out. I enjoyed this, as it force me to decide how I would I repair things... do I want weapons first or do I want to fix the engines.  SFC3 has this only to a certain extent.  I can target certain weapons at will, but knocking them out requires all of my firepower in one shunt... and knocking out one weapon at a time is not very effective, especially if I have to commit all of my fire power into it. I might as well have just taken out the vital systems like impulse or warp core.  

As it stands, I have found that it's actually easier to damage warp than it is to slow down opponents through the impulse enginges.  SFC3 is seeing a lot of ship variants that move very fast.  The Federation Intrepid class is an example of this.  My brother usually loads out his ship with light phaser banks all around, photons in the front, and a quantum in the back, level 5 shields, and what not.  He can fight with all of his weapons and travel at a speed of 60 constantly.  this isn't so bad, but i could effectively slow him down using mizia strikes after i've weakened his shields, it would help a lot.  I like to fly a k'tinga, despite the bad arcs.  I actually like the arcs, they are very effective for giving the ship circular defense, however; because mizia strikes aren't so effective in this game, the k'tinga and the fek'lhr are considered weak.  In fact, any ship with arcs that aren't pointed foward to provide alpha strike crunch are considered weak right now.  I don't think it's the arcs that are hurting their power, it's the fact that shields and armor in this game are extremely difficult to penetrate with anything except a heavy alpha.  I don't know if the patch will address the defensive power that many ships have in this game, but I hope Taldren will read this post in some way, or are already on their way to considering this issue.  I feel ships like the k'tinga will be more favorable to fly, despite the low space and usual low speeds they will have compared to other ships, if mizia attack became more 'functional'.  

I feel that if subsystems like the weapons were easily (yes, I said easily) stunned and destroyed, it would bring back a flavor of having to pilot well, and also allow us to knock out the opponents sometimes superior firepower out without having to use tremendous firepower ourselves.  AS of now, I don't select a tachyon beam as a weapon because I know that I practically NEED all heavy firepower I can get to bring an enemy down. I don't have time to think about disabling warp, I need to crunch through their shields.  If I could knock out several weapon systems more easily, then carrying around special tools like a tachyon beam would actually be useful.  Anyway, that's my rant.  I just wonder if Taldren is addressing any issues like this, I always have the deepest respect for their dedication to making the games better.  

Deviak

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2003, 09:45:02 pm »
actually Whip, it does work. However, I don't know why it hardly seems to have an effect in MP..One thing I did was to test this in Skirmish with my Intrepid and a Marauder, later did the same for a BoP. I realized that it had a delayed effect. If I fired at it till it was yellow, it didn't seem to have an effect, but I kept watching the speed counter. After a while, the speed of both the BoP and Marauder dropped and stayed at a constant lowered speed. Yeh I had them tractored to focus on the speed counter. I hit it again in the red and later destroyed it. They were still flying at that constant speed and a while later probably about 23 seconds or so, it started dropping bit by bit and then finally dropped to 0.

I believe the same thing should happen in MP but it's just delayed. Plus when those guys see their impulse is being hit they probably immeadiately start repairing and makes it seem that they had no effect whatsoever. Btw, you just can't help but keep at SFC 3 with these "debates" huh.    

Vysander

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2003, 09:46:56 pm »
I shoot at the impulse engines of those annoying pirate ships on planet missions.... i'm in a big slow sphere prime and those annoying things keep running from me (it's either that or charge up a tractor beam.. I usually snag one with a beam and just let my beam blow them up while I chase down another one)

I hate those things that fly out to range 30 before they decide to finally turn around and come back for another pass

Whiplash

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2003, 10:38:57 pm »
   Actually, Deviak, I didn't have an ulterior motive for this post. It doesn't really say anything bad about SFC3, does it? I mean, sure, maybe the subsystem targeting can be tweaked to be more fun and useful, but I've made no good or bad references at all. And not compared it to SFC2 either. But I will now.  In SFC2, when your ship blew up, it felt like it was a burning wreck due to all the systems it had lost. In SFC3, ships feel much more whole and complete until their warp core breaches. I don't really care for this. Surprised?

However, I was only asking to get information. I play SFC3 maybe only once every 2 weeks now. Still, I want to expand my knowledge base and find out what are the good tactics. In SFC2, you can't target subsystems at all. This is appropriate and desirable for a game based on SFB. For SFC3, I like the subsystem targeting because I have no preconceived standard of what the game should be. I use warp core targeting. I tried impulse targeting but didn't get good results. That is not a slam against SFC3. I wanted to find out if there was an important system I was missing out on.

If you miss my SFC3-basing posts, just say the word. I can probably oblige.

W.
 

Aldaron

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2003, 10:56:56 pm »
Quote:

Hey Aldaron, does your moniker come from a book or game or something? Perhaps a decade ago I was running a role-playing game and one of the players chose to name his character "Aldaron Stormclimber"...

W.
 




Aldaron is one of the Kings in Tolkiens books. If I remeber correctly he is one of Aragorn's ancestors.

Corbomite

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2003, 02:54:09 am »
Quote:

Aldaron is one of the Kings in Tolkiens books. If I remeber correctly he is one of Aragorn's ancestors.  




I think you are thinking of Tar-Aldarion, which isn't the same spelling. The only Aldaron I know of got blown up in Star Wars.

Tulmahk

  • Guest
Re: SFC3 subsystem targeting
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2003, 05:06:14 am »
If you're a cloaking race, do yourself a favor and target your enemy's Sensors.  It gives you a possibility of killing his Ops (or whichever one is in charge of anti-cloak) Officer off, and damaging the sensor itself, reducing the range and chance he's going to detect you.

Personally, I consider targeting the Warp Core a cheat.  It is far too easy and far too devastating.  In a future patch it would be nice to see Warp Cores that are a pain to take out.

Impulse engines are a good pick, especially if your opponent is faster than you.  I target this in leiu of the Warp Core.  Also, it give you a chance to kill of their Engineer.  Do that, and they're power drops a lot.

Targeting subsystems, I've found isn't that hard at all.  I usually equip my ships with rear, fast charging weapons specifically so that I can pick systems off as my oppenent is chasing me.  Persistence pays when knocking systems out, and remember they can be reapaired a limited number of times, so you're going to see a targeted system come back to green a few times before it's truly gone (depending on whether your opponent decides to spend spare parts on it).  Alpha strikes are certainly not required if you know what you're doing to take systems out.