Topic: Norton does it again...  (Read 8057 times)

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Offline Bonk

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Norton does it again...
« on: November 24, 2005, 10:11:05 am »
First Norton sucked my luddite aunt into upgrading to Norton 2005 when her system would not support it. (Win98, AMD K62-450, 64 MB RAM) Her subscription to the previous prodcut expired and she upgraded to 2005 by paying good money and downloading the new product. NOWHERE did they provide system requirements. Check the help file and it says: "see your printed documentation". They know full well the majority of users have no printed documentation as they downloaded the product. The system requirements were nowhere to be found on their website. I called them and finally got the system requirements (much greateer than my aunts system, as I suspected). Her system takes SEVEN MINUTES to boot up and locks up frequently. Bastards.

To top it off this next anecdote is even more insidious. My step-father can no longer connect to the internet (except for the Norton update site... ::)) as his Norton 2005 has expired. He cannot uninstall it as it is disabled because it is expired. Nasty, nasty, nasty! I told him to call then for removal instructions and to bill them for lost time in his consulting business.

It is official, Norton 2005 is malware. Worse it is a Trojan. It will cripple your system in ways you cannot even imagine.

Norton sucks.  >:(

Offline Midnight Tech

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2005, 10:21:29 am »
I second that Bonk! I try to steer peole clear of Norton and McAfee.
Personally I run AVG Free and have had no problems with it and supplement it with an occasional run of Trend Micro's online scanner.
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Offline Brush Wolf

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2005, 01:32:02 pm »
It is a sad thing. At one time you swore by Norton and now you swear at it.
I am alright, it is the world that is wrong.

Offline Javora

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2005, 01:37:13 pm »
I returned Norton Internet Security early last year because it simply didn't work and received a full refund.  You might want to take a look at the return policy and see if you can get a refund, they will return the money if you meet their requirements for return.  But yeah I hate Norton, I swear their whole company is driven by their marketing department and not on making a good product.  I since switched to Trend Micro and except for that one update early this year that caused me to reformat/reload my hard drive I have had really good luck with them.  I will either go with them again next year or switch to Panda, something you might want to consider Bonk.  Hope the rest of your day goes better.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2005, 01:53:32 pm »
Thanks Javora, yeah I use AVG on most installs and reccomend it to others. (Still using McAfee 6 on my own PC).

I have always considered Norton to be malicious software on the windows platform ever since I first encountered it. (With the exception perhaps of system commander)


Here's a conspiracy theory for ya:

Peter Norton, a former Microsoft employee, leaves Microsoft on bad terms.
Norton then develops an anti-virus software package.
In the ensuing years Windows is plagued by viruses targeted for the platform.
Norton anti-virus thrives.

Coincidence? I think not.

I was disappointed when Symantec was absorbed by Norton. That was the end of pcAnywhere for me. Thankfully VNC for windows and the MS remote desktop and terminal services has pretty much made it obsolete.

Offline Javora

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2005, 08:24:09 pm »
Well I was thinking more for your aunt, but if AVG works for you than that is what you should go with.  I don't think I well ever go with Norton or McAfee Antivirus/Firewall again.  I think the only thing those companies know how to do is keep the store shelves stocked.  I will say that Norton Ghost has worked pretty well for me though, saved my butt once already this year.

I've heard about the Antivirus companies making viruses conspiracy on and off for a couple of years, but never really put much stock into it.  Virus writers were bound to attack Windows, Norton and the other companies were just at the right place at the right time.

Offline Anthony Scott

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2005, 08:30:13 pm »
I use AntiVir, it is a freeware antivirus that runs better than Norton.

you can find it http://www.free-av.com/

Works just fine and it i freeware!

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Offline E_Look

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2005, 12:19:44 pm »
I used to just LOVE Norton Utilities, the old DOS versions up to version, what 8?.  They were not only useful normally, they saved my neck more than a few times when the HD crashed and it was able to repair the bad sectors and move data over to usable portions of the ferromagnetic platter(s).

Then I noticed version by version successively, features were removed, one by one and YET IT TOOK UP MORE SPACE ON THE HD!  Finally, with my Athlon 64, the old socket 754 run-hotter-than-a-supernova models, it literally raised the running and idling temperatures on my chip because it accessed it so many times per cycle!  It just became bloated, inefficent, and much less functional.

I uninstalled it...

... with some difficulty and much help from the fine folks inhabiting this here Dynaverse...

... and I won't buy their stuff, whatever it may be, unless there'll be proof positive someday that they have changed their (evil) ways.

Offline CaptJosh

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2005, 10:09:52 pm »
I thought that Symantec bought Norton, not the other way around.
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2005, 11:28:30 am »
That could be, either way, they're both on my pooplist now.

Offline Grim

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2005, 11:32:45 am »
My father has Norton Internet Security on his PC, his machine has considerably slowed down and is causing all sorts of problems. I am trying to pluck up courage to uninstall it for him, but from what Iíve read and heard it can be a pain in the ass to remove completely.



Offline Sirgod

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2005, 11:33:20 am »
I have to through in there with my discust for Norton also. Years ago, when a 120 MHZ machine was top of the line, I had a program from Norton that was supposed to make sure your PC didn't crash, any errors, and It would pop up a screen with a possible fix.

What the Program actually did, was Look for possible crashes by trying to crash your system. The only Norton Program I have is Ghost, and that's only used in extreme Emergancies.

Stephen
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2005, 11:54:10 am »
In my opinion, once a Norton product is installed on your Windows system you might as well just back up your data, delete all partions and start again. Drastic, but guaranteed to remove all the Norton viruses/trojans.

Offline E_Look

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2005, 07:10:25 pm »
My father has Norton Internet Security on his PC, his machine has considerably slowed down and is causing all sorts of problems. I am trying to pluck up courage to uninstall it for him, but from what Iíve read and heard it can be a pain in the ass to remove completely.




Actually, Grim, there was a thread somewhere in our forums here that tells you how to remove Norton (Utilities, Firewall, Systemworks, etc.) completely, and it isn't all that bad, as I did it and as far as I know, there is no Symantec or Norton anything left on my hard drive.

Let me see if I can find it for you... which is a 50-50 proposition; so, you can search these forums, too, if you want using keywords like "remove Norton" or some such combination.

Offline E_Look

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2005, 07:18:20 pm »
HEY GRIM!!!

I found our thread, and the post was by none other than Pestalence:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163355670.msg1122561647/topicseen.html#msg1122561647

and I have another post of his on the topic:

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163353521.msg1122536331.html#msg1122536331

Happy hunting!

Offline Grim

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2005, 07:11:33 am »

Cool thanks ;D :thumbsup:

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2005, 07:43:50 am »
Yay Pestalence! (I hope he's doing OK)  Thanks for digging that up E_Look.  :thumbsup:

Offline Lono

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2005, 11:11:32 am »
Gee Whiz - Is norton Really That Bad now??

I just got norton Util 2006 and Firewall fro free (after rebate) and I was gonna put it on my new comp this weekend.

With Norton I usually just turn all the processes off and just use the anti virus or defrag when I feel like running it - wont that keep it from using any unecessary resources?

And as far as the firewall - is that okay or also a resource hog?

Lemme know what you guys think because I haven't openend it yet and can return it no prob.

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2005, 11:18:09 am »
The firewall product will comandeer your internet connection when it expires. It will essentially blackmail you into updating. I stongly advise that you return the product immediatly. It is evil.

Instead, I reccomend:

http://free.grisoft.com/doc/Get+AVG+FREE/lng/us/tpl/v5  (bottom of the page)

It costs nothing, will not cripple your PC and actually removes viruses instead of being one.

Offline Grim

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2005, 11:21:49 am »
The firewall product will comandeer your internet connection when it expires. It will essentially blackmail you into updating. I stongly advise that you return the product immediatly. It is evil.

Instead, I reccomend:

http://free.grisoft.com/doc/Get+AVG+FREE/lng/us/tpl/v5  (bottom of the page)

It costs nothing, will not cripple your PC and actually removes viruses instead of being one.


Yeah AVG is a great free Antivirus prog, i was wondering if Bonk (or annyone else) have tried Avast?, which is supposedly a free antivirus prog as well.

Offline Lono

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2005, 11:33:37 am »
Yikes!!!

Thanks for the advice! - Glad I waited to open it...

Any suggestions for a good firewall - I've never used one before, but I've been wanting to start accessing my machine remotely and was thinking I should start using one.

Also aren't they pretty good for detecting backdoor/malware/trojans because they detect them trying to access the internet?

I would like to monitor that activity as well as poert scans on my system.

Thanks again!


Offline Brush Wolf

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2005, 03:26:11 pm »
I have been using Zone Alarm and am happy with it.
I am alright, it is the world that is wrong.

Offline Lono

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2005, 03:42:53 pm »
Awesome - my co worker also swears by that - I'll try it - thanks!!


Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2005, 04:04:53 pm »
Just don't run it while playing on the Dynaverse... pleeeaaasssseee!

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2005, 08:17:30 pm »
Aarg. Bonk just tried to call ya Bro. My sis in law is running Mcafee, Norton and AVG all at the same time. Now while I like AVG, tomorrow I'll have to again Break down her registry and remove Norton again...

Man this is just crazy, what do I need to do in the registry to stop Norton from giving her a pop up to Re-install?

Stephen
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Offline Midnight Tech

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2005, 08:28:35 pm »
What Windows she running Stephen?
For computer problems, check out Tech Support Forum!

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2005, 08:30:44 pm »
What Windows she running Stephen?

XP home, Man I should have PMed you and Waldo, or checked out the Tech forum again. I just know It'll be a long day tomorrow, fixing up her system. I normaly don't mind doing work like this, BUt the cows have me exhausted.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2005, 11:50:50 am »
I'm sorry, but the only reccomendation I can make is to back up files, wipe the hard disk, reinstall windows and never go near Norton again.

Though you may be able to find another solution. I believe Norton will try charge you for tech support calls.  :thumbsdown:

Offline Mr_Tricorder

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2005, 12:04:44 pm »
I made the mistake of installing Norton on my computer a couple of years ago and it took me forever to dig out all of that crap out of the registry.  I stay away from big-name corporate software now because it's almost always crap, hard to remove, and tries to suck you into some kind of payment cycle.  I long for the day when I can truly leave Microsoft and all of its accomplices behind.

Offline IAF Lyrkiller

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2005, 09:45:05 am »
I never register anything that I buy, Norton included. All I need to do is uninstall and reinstall norton on a freshly installed version of XP. ;D




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Offline KBF MalaK

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2005, 03:46:29 pm »
I used to have the 2005 norton security suite installed on both my offi ce and home PC, but after it demanded I pay the update charges, I let it remove itself and installed the 2003 suite instead and have had no problems since. I DO uninstall it about every 6 months and reinstall it to reset the subscription. They hide the file...but I know where it is.† I've also used the subscription 'crack' which will keep the products updated until 2029.

:)

what can I say, I paid for it- but since it's  really crappy I'm not above fixxing it for my self. So don't ask for my 'fix'.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2005, 04:07:06 pm by KBF-K' MalaK »
"Artificial Intelligence is not a suitable substitute for natural stupidity"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2005, 04:08:38 pm »
You're lucky your copy of 2005 uninstalled itself. On expiry my stepfather's copy refused to uninstall, refused to work and disabled his internet connection. Very nasty stuff.

Offline KBF MalaK

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2005, 04:33:55 pm »
well, I'm using win98 so I'll bet it's a bit different than XP. Norton hides the subscription stuff in the "C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\Symantec\Shared", so when you remove the products- erase these files. I dunno if XP works the same way.
"Artificial Intelligence is not a suitable substitute for natural stupidity"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2005, 08:26:32 am »
Norton is pure evil. It pissed me off royally today. I cannot say how, but I'm bloody steaming at the ears and foaming at the mouth with rage. It is the worst virus, there is now no question in my mind.  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( !

Offline KBF MalaK

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2005, 08:52:23 am »
I believe in the 'watchdog' theory- I run 4 different things
adaware, spybot s&d, NAV, and spyware blaster. Usually 1 will miss something, but the others will pick it up. I don't particularly trust norton, but I'm cheap and can't afford a decent firewall (I hate zonealarm), and I keep backups of my registry via norton and spybot (not counting the ghost backup). I once bought a used PC with norton firewall 2002 that was expired and it worked just fine online so I dunno what they did to make the newer versions restrict access when the product expired, but I DO regularly review the firewall rules just to make sure norton isn't allowing something I don't know about.

I've got an old copy of Mcafee somewhere, but I'm sure they operate along the same lines when it comes to subscriptions.
"Artificial Intelligence is not a suitable substitute for natural stupidity"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2005, 09:16:23 am »
Myself I run Ad-Aware, Spybot Search & Destroy, MS Antispyware and McAfee6 and no firewall. But I do not run any of them continuously, only once in a while will I load them up. For example, I updated them all yesterday and ran them one by one for the first time in a month, the system came up totally clean. I have never been hacked. Its all in how you browse the web.  (a good offense is the best defense... ;))

edit: as the main benefit, my old PIII-1000MHz still far outperforms most P4s weighed down by all those on-demand scanners.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2005, 09:31:07 am by Bonk »

Offline KBF MalaK

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2005, 09:20:52 am »
Myself I run Ad-Aware, Spybot Search & Destroy, MS Antispyware and McAfee6 and no firewall. But I do not run any of them continuously, only once in a while will I load them up. For example, I updated them all yesterday and ran them one by one for the first time in a month, the system came up totally clean. I have never been hacked. Its all in how you browse the web.† (a good offense is the best defense... ;))

I couldn't agree more. As I'm dial-up I have no need for all that streaming content so I have active-x disabled as well as most of the macromedia stuff. I DO have S&D memory resident (teatimer) which probably helps alot.
"Artificial Intelligence is not a suitable substitute for natural stupidity"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2005, 09:38:23 am »
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ (my best browsing friend) on Firefox 1.5 here, javascript enabled and activex does not apply. I am very wary of java however and do not trust anything signed by Thawte at all. The only certificate authority I really trust is Entrust or self signed trustworthy sites.

An image of my system tray during routine use is attached as an example on how not to bog down your PC with false security crap:

Offline KBF MalaK

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2005, 09:49:03 am »
http://flashblock.mozdev.org/ (my best browsing friend) on Firefox 1.5 here, javascript enabled and activex does not apply. I am very wary of java however and do not trust anything signed by Thawte at all. The only certificate authority I really trust is Entrust or self signed trustworthy sites.

An image of my system tray during routine use is attached as an example on how not to bog down your PC with false security crap:



Ohhhhh VERY nice !!

+1 karma for you, Bonk.
Time to get Mozilla and FF re-installed
"Artificial Intelligence is not a suitable substitute for natural stupidity"                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2005, 09:54:43 am »
Yup, the flashblock extension is awesome!  :thumbsup:  Saves boatloads of wasted bandwidth.  :) 

P.S. check my Firefox installation guidelines here:
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163362570.msg1122656892.html#msg1122656892

P.P.S. this is my 5000th post!  :woot:

Offline SkyFlyer

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2005, 07:07:09 pm »
Quote
edit: as the main benefit, my old PIII-1000MHz still far outperforms most P4s weighed down by all those on-demand scanners.

If you have a decent heatsink you can get that up to 1.1ghz easy.
Life is short... running makes it seem longer.

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Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #41 on: December 25, 2005, 01:16:44 am »
Overclocking equals reduced processor lifetime even with improved cooling. a 100MHz gain is not worth it. I don't really have a need for it. I have a cheapy 1.8GHz AMD machine sitting unused in the shed.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #42 on: December 26, 2005, 07:59:28 am »
Link to full article

Quote
A critical software bug has been discovered in several of the most widely used anti-virus programs. It could be exploited to take control of a computer or to steal information, according to an analysis produced by the independent security analyst who made the discovery.

The glitch affects 39 different Symantec products - including both home and enterprise versions of its anti-virus software. It resides within the Symantec anti-virus library, which is used by all of the packages.

The analyst, Alex Wheeler, discovered that a critical error occurs when the Symantec anti-virus library decompresses files from "RAR" format for analysis. An attacker could exploit the loophole to load unauthorised code onto a computer, and potentially to crack open its defences, he says.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #43 on: December 26, 2005, 09:06:15 am »
Not suprising. Norton AV chokes horribly on compressed files of any type I have noticed. Thanks for the news Nemesis.

Offline SkyFlyer

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #44 on: December 26, 2005, 11:11:36 am »
Overclocking equals reduced processor lifetime even with improved cooling. a 100MHz gain is not worth it. I don't really have a need for it. I have a cheapy 1.8GHz AMD machine sitting unused in the shed.

well if you don't need to overclock, then don't ;)


If the processor lifetime is diminished... well it lasts 7 years instead of 10.


Personally, i need to overclock it to run source (counterstrike)
Life is short... running makes it seem longer.

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Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2006, 09:17:30 am »
And Norton does it yet again:

http://safer-networking.org/en/news/2006-01-07.html

 ::)  >:(

One day they will get what they have coming.

Lets look at a typical malware identification checklist:

- resist uninstallation (x)
- persist after uninstallation attempts (x)
- reinstall after uninstallation or "by the roots" removal ()
- hide from the user (x)
- hide from the operating system (x)
- hide what they are doing * (x)
- damage the operating system (x)
- replace, interfere with, spoof, or hijack functions such as DNS resolution, home page, file associations and toolbars (x)
- create problems in order to sell you a "fix" for them (x)

Yup, there you have it...

Symantec - The David Hannum of PC software marketing...  >:(

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2006, 11:11:40 am »
Wow that article from Sbybot S-D was scathing.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Nemesis

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2006, 09:09:39 pm »
Due to my hi-jacking of the latter half of the thread I split the thread.  The other part is now Microsoft hero or villain have your say. Also Windows vs Linux.

Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
 FoaS_XC : "Take great pains to distinguish a criticism vs. an attack. A person reading a post should never be able to confuse the two."

Offline Bonk

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Re: Norton does it again...
« Reply #48 on: January 16, 2006, 02:34:50 am »
Thanks Nem, good job.  :thumbsup:  I'll join in over there shortly...