Topic: The sad demise of the VHS tape.  (Read 11609 times)

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Offline Nemesis

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The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« on: December 29, 2008, 07:34:17 am »
When I get REALLY annoyed with those "unskippable" things (why do I a Canadian get stuck with the FBI warning?) I play them on my computer, Kaffiene skips them quite nicely.
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Offline toasty0

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2008, 08:40:48 am »
 :rofl:

"hey, you bought the movie..."
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 09:22:00 am »
Its still better than the (Californian I think) cable company who tried to block people from using a TIVO like device that could record from cable automatically deleting commercials who claimed that the viewer had a "contractual" obligation to watch commercials.  As I understood it there was no contract as such and no wording stating it in the terms of service either. 

I would love the studios to understand that people who but or watch a lot of DVDs get ANNOYED very seriously by having the same "previews" forced down their throats on disk after disk.   Especially so on TV series boxed sets.  Do we really need to be forced to sit through the same preview before each and every episode we watch?  Do the studios really want to condition us to not watch their products?

Can you tell that DRM seriously annoys me?  I'm anti "piracy" but I do understand those who say ENOUGH ALREADY and end up pirating things just to avoid the BS of the DRM.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 09:36:10 am »
why do I a Canadian get stuck with the FBI warning?.

Because you come from a mostly English Speaking country bordering the US, with a much smaller population, so most DVDs marketed in your country are either produced in the US, or produced with the intent of possible sale in the US.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2008, 09:49:48 am »
why do I a Canadian get stuck with the FBI warning?.

Because you come from a mostly English Speaking country bordering the US, with a much smaller population, so most DVDs marketed in your country are either produced in the US, or produced with the intent of possible sale in the US.

Most of them are in both French and English so I would say it is more than just being close to the U.S.. 

In any case I should be able to buy a DVD player that allows skipping them.  Those who are going to pirate them are not going to be persuaded otherwise because the master copy has an unskippable "piracy is illegal" warning.  Making these things unskippable does not help the company and annoys the consumer, they serve no useful function.

One of the reasons I haven't considered blu-ray is the "enhancements" to the DRM that they carry.  DRM does not work.  Pirates still pirate and the honest people have to deal with the problems caused.  Treat someone as a thief long enough and they may well say "I get punished so I may as well be guilty and enjoy the profits". 
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Offline Age

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2008, 04:19:59 pm »
It doesn't  bug  me  I just  fastforward  through it  all.

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 04:21:49 pm »
The only problem is that some DVD's have commands that tell the dvd player not to skip past certain scenes.

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 05:07:01 pm »
The only problem is that some DVD's have commands that tell the dvd player not to skip past certain scenes.

And the companies that own the rights to the DVD format specify that the players can't allow you the machine owner to skip things the disk maker mark as unskippable.  They require you to give control to the disk maker of what you bought.  Its MY machine and MY disk and I am the one who should be in control of it.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 05:30:16 pm »
The only problem is that some DVD's have commands that tell the dvd player not to skip past certain scenes.

And the companies that own the rights to the DVD format specify that the players can't allow you the machine owner to skip things the disk maker mark as unskippable.  They require you to give control to the disk maker of what you bought.  Its MY machine and MY disk and I am the one who should be in control of it.

But its their IP, and if you want to enjoy it, you play by their rules. :carmen:

Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 05:46:42 pm »
The only problem is that some DVD's have commands that tell the dvd player not to skip past certain scenes.

And the companies that own the rights to the DVD format specify that the players can't allow you the machine owner to skip things the disk maker mark as unskippable.  They require you to give control to the disk maker of what you bought.  Its MY machine and MY disk and I am the one who should be in control of it.

But its their IP, and if you want to enjoy it, you play by their rules. :carmen:

The copy is mine to do with as THE LAW allows not as the corporation desires. Legally they have no right to control what I bought. 

Can your car manufacturer dictate what roads you drive on or whom you buy fuel from and who may be a passenger in it?  If not then why can a publisher dictate how you use what you bought?
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 05:50:41 pm »
The only problem is that some DVD's have commands that tell the dvd player not to skip past certain scenes.

And the companies that own the rights to the DVD format specify that the players can't allow you the machine owner to skip things the disk maker mark as unskippable.  They require you to give control to the disk maker of what you bought.  Its MY machine and MY disk and I am the one who should be in control of it.

Agreed.

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Offline knightstorm

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2008, 06:01:05 pm »
The only problem is that some DVD's have commands that tell the dvd player not to skip past certain scenes.

And the companies that own the rights to the DVD format specify that the players can't allow you the machine owner to skip things the disk maker mark as unskippable.  They require you to give control to the disk maker of what you bought.  Its MY machine and MY disk and I am the one who should be in control of it.

But its their IP, and if you want to enjoy it, you play by their rules. :carmen:

The copy is mine to do with as THE LAW allows not as the corporation desires. Legally they have no right to control what I bought. 

Can your car manufacturer dictate what roads you drive on or whom you buy fuel from and who may be a passenger in it?  If not then why can a publisher dictate how you use what you bought?

Not a good comparison.  If a car manufacturer tried to place those sorts of restrictions on how you use your car, no one would buy their cars.  In this situation, THE LAW gives the company a monopoly on their IP, to distribute in the manner that they choose.

Offline Centurus

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2008, 06:07:31 pm »
U.S. law also allows the consumer to make copies of any media that they have legally purchased, as long as such copies are only meant for backup purposes and kept by the original purchaser.

Yet the industry puts so many security codes into the discs which prevents people from exercising their right.  Granted, it may be the company's intellectual property, but when you buy a copy in the store, that copy becomes your personal property, and within reason, the law can't tell you what you can or can't do with your personal property, and the law says that you can make backups of such things for your own personal reasons.

This is something that's been going on for such a long time, doesn't matter how good one side's argument is, the other side will have a just a good of an argument, so in the end, it's a moot point.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2008, 06:14:22 pm »
U.S. law also allows the consumer to make copies of any media that they have legally purchased, as long as such copies are only meant for backup purposes and kept by the original purchaser.

Yet the industry puts so many security codes into the discs which prevents people from exercising their right.  Granted, it may be the company's intellectual property, but when you buy a copy in the store, that copy becomes your personal property, and within reason, the law can't tell you what you can or can't do with your personal property, and the law says that you can make backups of such things for your own personal reasons.
As you pointed out, once they get the disk there is no law against the consumer making his own copies, likewise there is no law against the manufacturers putting DRM on the disk.

This is something that's been going on for such a long time, doesn't matter how good one side's argument is, the other side will have a just a good of an argument, so in the end, it's a moot point.

But its so fun to aggravate people.

Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2008, 06:18:03 pm »
As you pointed out, once they get the disk there is no law against the consumer making his own copies, likewise there is no law against the manufacturers putting DRM on the disk.

In the U.S. it is illegal to defeat that DRM (see the DMCA) and you can be put in jail for doing so or possessing the tools to do so.  Fortunately all the attempts to put in a Canadian version of the DMCA have failed.

Among the tools that are illegal under the DMCA are magic markers and computer shift keys.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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Offline Centurus

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #15 on: December 29, 2008, 06:21:14 pm »
As you pointed out, once they get the disk there is no law against the consumer making his own copies, likewise there is no law against the manufacturers putting DRM on the disk.

In the U.S. it is illegal to defeat that DRM (see the DMCA) and you can be put in jail for doing so or possessing the tools to do so.  Fortunately all the attempts to put in a Canadian version of the DMCA have failed.

Among the tools that are illegal under the DMCA are magic markers and computer shift keys.

Yet the DMCA infringes on the consumer's federal right to make backups, so you still have a very big problem because in order for one party to exercise their rights, they have to violate the rights of the other party.

So you're still stuck in the same situation.  It's not really illegal to have those tools.  What you do with those programs, that's where the legality comes in.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #16 on: December 29, 2008, 06:25:19 pm »
U.S. law also allows the consumer to make copies of any media that they have legally purchased, as long as such copies are only meant for backup purposes and kept by the original purchaser.

Yet the industry puts so many security codes into the discs which prevents people from exercising their right.  Granted, it may be the company's intellectual property, but when you buy a copy in the store, that copy becomes your personal property, and within reason, the law can't tell you what you can or can't do with your personal property, and the law says that you can make backups of such things for your own personal reasons.

This is something that's been going on for such a long time, doesn't matter how good one side's argument is, the other side will have a just a good of an argument, so in the end, it's a moot point.

A good example of this, is I noticed my Final Fantasy 7 discs for the PS2 where getting pretty scratched up, so I made an ISO of them.

I have a Closet full of VHS tapes. Quite a few Stormbringer gave me when he was switching to DVD. One of these day's I'll spend a week burning them to DVD also.

Stephen

PS. Funny cartoon up there, I LOL'd
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Offline Clark Kent

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #17 on: December 29, 2008, 06:58:48 pm »
Yeah yeah, legal, not legal, blah blah blah...

Anyone know how I can fast forward through those friggin trailers on my DVDs?
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #18 on: December 29, 2008, 07:01:48 pm »
Yeah yeah, legal, not legal, blah blah blah...

Anyone know how I can fast forward through those friggin trailers on my DVDs?

Under the DMCA telling you that is illegal.

I bypass them when using Kaffience on Linux to play the disks.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
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Offline Sarek

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #19 on: December 29, 2008, 07:04:43 pm »
Yeah yeah, legal, not legal, blah blah blah...

Anyone know how I can fast forward through those friggin trailers on my DVDs?

Record them on VHS and then watch them?

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.  – John Adams (1814)


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Offline Clark Kent

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #20 on: December 29, 2008, 07:14:28 pm »
Yeah yeah, legal, not legal, blah blah blah...

Anyone know how I can fast forward through those friggin trailers on my DVDs?

Under the DMCA telling you that is illegal.

I bypass them when using Kaffience on Linux to play the disks.

 :skeptic:

How do I fast forward through them on Windows or mac OS??
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Centurus

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #21 on: December 29, 2008, 07:18:48 pm »
Yeah yeah, legal, not legal, blah blah blah...

Anyone know how I can fast forward through those friggin trailers on my DVDs?

Under the DMCA telling you that is illegal.

I bypass them when using Kaffience on Linux to play the disks.

 :skeptic:

How do I fast forward through them on Windows or mac OS??

Sometimes I get past it by right clicking on the screen and seeing if I can select the Root Menu.  Or I sometimes just hit stop, then hit play again.

Doesn't always work.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.


Offline Clark Kent

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #22 on: December 29, 2008, 07:19:40 pm »
Yeah yeah, legal, not legal, blah blah blah...

Anyone know how I can fast forward through those friggin trailers on my DVDs?

Under the DMCA telling you that is illegal.

I bypass them when using Kaffience on Linux to play the disks.

 :skeptic:

How do I fast forward through them on Windows or mac OS??

Sometimes I get past it by right clicking on the screen and seeing if I can select the Root Menu.  Or I sometimes just hit stop, then hit play again.

Doesn't always work.

Oooh, thanks bro!
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Centurus

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #23 on: December 29, 2008, 07:20:32 pm »
Yeah yeah, legal, not legal, blah blah blah...

Anyone know how I can fast forward through those friggin trailers on my DVDs?

Under the DMCA telling you that is illegal.

I bypass them when using Kaffience on Linux to play the disks.

 :skeptic:

How do I fast forward through them on Windows or mac OS??

Sometimes I get past it by right clicking on the screen and seeing if I can select the Root Menu.  Or I sometimes just hit stop, then hit play again.

Doesn't always work.

Oooh, thanks bro!

You're welcome.  But remember, it doesn't always work.  Depends on the DVD.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.  And considerably easier to write with.


Offline Clark Kent

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #24 on: December 29, 2008, 07:22:18 pm »
Yeah yeah, legal, not legal, blah blah blah...

Anyone know how I can fast forward through those friggin trailers on my DVDs?

Under the DMCA telling you that is illegal.

I bypass them when using Kaffience on Linux to play the disks.

 :skeptic:

How do I fast forward through them on Windows or mac OS??

Sometimes I get past it by right clicking on the screen and seeing if I can select the Root Menu.  Or I sometimes just hit stop, then hit play again.

Doesn't always work.

Oooh, thanks bro!

You're welcome.  But remember, it doesn't always work.  Depends on the DVD.

Yeah we need something to get past that little problem
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline knightstorm

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2008, 07:39:06 pm »
As you pointed out, once they get the disk there is no law against the consumer making his own copies, likewise there is no law against the manufacturers putting DRM on the disk.

In the U.S. it is illegal to defeat that DRM (see the DMCA) and you can be put in jail for doing so or possessing the tools to do so.  Fortunately all the attempts to put in a Canadian version of the DMCA have failed.

Among the tools that are illegal under the DMCA are magic markers and computer shift keys.

Maybe I'm reading the law incorrectly but DMCA still protects fair use such as bypassing DRM to make a personal backup copy, however the distribution of technology to do so is strictly prohibited.

Offline toasty0

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2008, 09:37:21 pm »
why do I a Canadian get stuck with the FBI warning?.

Because you come from a mostly English Speaking country bordering the US, with a much smaller population, so most DVDs marketed in your country are either produced in the US, or produced with the intent of possible sale in the US.

You don't say.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2008, 09:56:31 pm »
why do I a Canadian get stuck with the FBI warning?.

Because you come from a mostly English Speaking country bordering the US, with a much smaller population, so most DVDs marketed in your country are either produced in the US, or produced with the intent of possible sale in the US.


You don't say.

Are you mocking me? :flame: :flame: :flame:

Offline toasty0

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2008, 10:00:14 pm »
Mocking is way too strong a word.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2008, 10:04:28 pm »
Then what word would you use?

Offline toasty0

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2008, 10:08:55 pm »
Joshing you. There was no malice in my intent. If there had been then mocking would have been correct.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2008, 11:54:34 pm »
Maybe I'm reading the law incorrectly but DMCA still protects fair use such as bypassing DRM to make a personal backup copy, however the distribution of technology to do so is strictly prohibited.


As I understand it the actual bypassing or possession of tools to do so is illegal.

How do I fast forward through them on Windows or mac OS??


Try VidoLAN.
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Offline knightstorm

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2008, 12:20:55 am »
Maybe I'm reading the law incorrectly but DMCA still protects fair use such as bypassing DRM to make a personal backup copy, however the distribution of technology to do so is strictly prohibited.


As I understand it the actual bypassing or possession of tools to do so is illegal.

Here's the particular subsection of the law that I'm going by.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode17/usc_sec_17_00001201----000-.html
Quote
(c) Other Rights, Etc., Not Affected.—(1) Nothing in this section shall affect rights, remedies, limitations, or defenses to copyright infringement, including fair use, under this title. l

Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2008, 10:21:32 am »
What to do if someone skips the FBI screens.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
Seti Team    Free Software
I believe truth and principle do matter. If you have to sacrifice them to get the results you want, then the results aren't worth it.
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Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2008, 04:24:50 pm »
The problem is that no matter what sort of DRM is used, there's always the pirates out there who figure out a way around it. The casual user doesn't bother with pirating much, so the DRM crap only hurts them and doesn't affect the pirate in the least.

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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #35 on: January 02, 2009, 07:06:18 am »
How the MPAA treats honest customers.

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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #36 on: January 02, 2009, 02:44:36 pm »
to provide a different lament over the demise of VHS, as a video professional, having made many many dubs of rough cuts, fine cuts, final cuts, director's cuts, every cut imaginable...
999 times out of 1000, a VHS would always copy and would always play back on every VHS machine ever made.
DVDs, well, I've made several hundred coasters over the years...

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #37 on: January 02, 2009, 02:58:32 pm »
The problem with VHS tho is that for every copy you made, you had to use the original. Making a copy of a copy, each time you did it you lost about 10-15 percent of the quality.

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Offline Pestalence_XC

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #38 on: January 02, 2009, 06:45:15 pm »
The only problem is that some DVD's have commands that tell the dvd player not to skip past certain scenes.

And the companies that own the rights to the DVD format specify that the players can't allow you the machine owner to skip things the disk maker mark as unskippable.  They require you to give control to the disk maker of what you bought.  Its MY machine and MY disk and I am the one who should be in control of it.

But its their IP, and if you want to enjoy it, you play by their rules. :carmen:

The copy is mine to do with as THE LAW allows not as the corporation desires. Legally they have no right to control what I bought. 

Can your car manufacturer dictate what roads you drive on or whom you buy fuel from and who may be a passenger in it?  If not then why can a publisher dictate how you use what you bought?

Poor example.

Car manufacturers can void your warranty if you use the wrong oil or if you take it in to a non partnered mechanic.

Take Dodge for example... they come with a Lifetime Warranty right?

Wrong.

Dodge carries a lifetime warranty for the original owner only.. non transferable.. not even to immediate relatives.. if the title changes names.. warranty is void. Also if you use fluids other than Full Synthetic, like Semi Synthetic or Conventional Trans Fluid or motor oil.. then warranty is void. If you change tire size from Manufacturers specs you void warranty.. if you raise or lower the vehicle outside the dealership, you void the warranty.. if you replace the stereo outside a partnered company you void the warranty..

It is a product produced by Dodge, You purchased it and you own it, however you have to follow their rules to keep your lifetime warranty.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #39 on: January 02, 2009, 07:04:43 pm »
The copy is mine to do with as THE LAW allows not as the corporation desires. Legally they have no right to control what I bought. 

Can your car manufacturer dictate what roads you drive on or whom you buy fuel from and who may be a passenger in it?  If not then why can a publisher dictate how you use what you bought?

Poor example.

Car manufacturers can void your warranty if you use the wrong oil or if you take it in to a non partnered mechanic.

Take Dodge for example... they come with a Lifetime Warranty right?

Wrong.

Dodge carries a lifetime warranty for the original owner only.. non transferable.. not even to immediate relatives.. if the title changes names.. warranty is void. Also if you use fluids other than Full Synthetic, like Semi Synthetic or Conventional Trans Fluid or motor oil.. then warranty is void. If you change tire size from Manufacturers specs you void warranty. if you raise or lower the vehicle outside the dealership, you void the warranty.. if you replace the stereo outside a partnered company you void the warranty..

It is a product produced by Dodge, You purchased it and you own it, however you have to follow their rules to keep your lifetime warranty.

Actually I don't think that all those are valid in Canada.  Any type of maintenance here only takes a licensed mechanic and appropriate tools / parts they can't tell you who does it.  They can say that you void the warranty by using an oil that is not to specification but they can't say you may only use our brand.  The same for parts.

In any case even in your examples the company still does not claim any right to STOP you from doing these things.  With copyrighted products the BSA, RIAA and MPAA are claiming to take from you rights that the law allows.  These copyright organizations try to claim that you don't own what you bought and that the legal rights the law gives you can be taken by them as they are above the law.  With software companies they have tried to claim that you can't sell the product.  Some have even tried to claim you can't transfer between machines. 

How do you think that people will react the first time a company uses the DRM on Blu-Ray players to disable playing older discs by that company?  Do you really think the courts will hold up the "right" of the disc producer to retroactively take away your right to play a disc on your player?  How many times will you replace your (fully functional) Blu-Ray player just to play the movies you bought before saying ENOUGH?
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Offline Commander Maxillius

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2009, 10:01:39 pm »
The copy is mine to do with as THE LAW allows not as the corporation desires. Legally they have no right to control what I bought. 

Can your car manufacturer dictate what roads you drive on or whom you buy fuel from and who may be a passenger in it?  If not then why can a publisher dictate how you use what you bought?

Poor example.

Car manufacturers can void your warranty if you use the wrong oil or if you take it in to a non partnered mechanic.

Take Dodge for example... they come with a Lifetime Warranty right?

Wrong.

Dodge carries a lifetime warranty for the original owner only.. non transferable.. not even to immediate relatives.. if the title changes names.. warranty is void. Also if you use fluids other than Full Synthetic, like Semi Synthetic or Conventional Trans Fluid or motor oil.. then warranty is void. If you change tire size from Manufacturers specs you void warranty. if you raise or lower the vehicle outside the dealership, you void the warranty.. if you replace the stereo outside a partnered company you void the warranty..

It is a product produced by Dodge, You purchased it and you own it, however you have to follow their rules to keep your lifetime warranty.

Actually I don't think that all those are valid in Canada.  Any type of maintenance here only takes a licensed mechanic and appropriate tools / parts they can't tell you who does it.  They can say that you void the warranty by using an oil that is not to specification but they can't say you may only use our brand.  The same for parts.

In any case even in your examples the company still does not claim any right to STOP you from doing these things.  With copyrighted products the BSA, RIAA and MPAA are claiming to take from you rights that the law allows.  These copyright organizations try to claim that you don't own what you bought and that the legal rights the law gives you can be taken by them as they are above the law.  With software companies they have tried to claim that you can't sell the product.  Some have even tried to claim you can't transfer between machines. 

How do you think that people will react the first time a company uses the DRM on Blu-Ray players to disable playing older discs by that company?  Do you really think the courts will hold up the "right" of the disc producer to retroactively take away your right to play a disc on your player?  How many times will you replace your (fully functional) Blu-Ray player just to play the movies you bought before saying ENOUGH?

Are we assuming the MPAA and RIAA can't buy the judge presiding over the class action lawsuit that would cause?
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Offline marstone

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #41 on: January 02, 2009, 10:13:52 pm »
The only problem is that some DVD's have commands that tell the dvd player not to skip past certain scenes.

And the companies that own the rights to the DVD format specify that the players can't allow you the machine owner to skip things the disk maker mark as unskippable.  They require you to give control to the disk maker of what you bought.  Its MY machine and MY disk and I am the one who should be in control of it.

But its their IP, and if you want to enjoy it, you play by their rules. :carmen:

The copy is mine to do with as THE LAW allows not as the corporation desires. Legally they have no right to control what I bought. 

Can your car manufacturer dictate what roads you drive on or whom you buy fuel from and who may be a passenger in it?  If not then why can a publisher dictate how you use what you bought?

Poor example.

Car manufacturers can void your warranty if you use the wrong oil or if you take it in to a non partnered mechanic.

Take Dodge for example... they come with a Lifetime Warranty right?

Wrong.

Dodge carries a lifetime warranty for the original owner only.. non transferable.. not even to immediate relatives.. if the title changes names.. warranty is void. Also if you use fluids other than Full Synthetic, like Semi Synthetic or Conventional Trans Fluid or motor oil.. then warranty is void. If you change tire size from Manufacturers specs you void warranty.. if you raise or lower the vehicle outside the dealership, you void the warranty.. if you replace the stereo outside a partnered company you void the warranty..

It is a product produced by Dodge, You purchased it and you own it, however you have to follow their rules to keep your lifetime warranty.


This is would also be like a book manufacture requiring you to read the forward of the book you bought.  I will agree it is their IP, but it is my property and the owner should be allowed to skip watching whatever they want to.

Equating a warranty to forcing you to watch something is weak.  A warranty is so you can bring it back to be repaired if something was wrong, thus requiring an amount of care is understandable.  It has nothing to do with watching ads and such.  Just on New Years I had to watch a No smoking ad on a movie we were watching.  Why is it I "had" to watch that.

Back to the warranty issue.  Dodge doesn't have the car shut-down and not work if you put the wrong oil in it.  I am allowed to put different tires on it if I choose to.  Sure warranty is void, but I still can do it.  But I don't have the option to do so with my DVD.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #42 on: January 03, 2009, 05:26:54 am »
Are we assuming the MPAA and RIAA can't buy the judge presiding over the class action lawsuit that would cause?

So far the RIAA when those they have sued have fought back have had a poor record.  The one big award they have received has been set aside and their appeal of that has been denied.  Those cases have gone so badly that they are at least claiming that they aren't going to be continuing to start 10s of thousands of lawsuits. 

So yes I would say we are assuming that they can't just buy the judges wholesale as they would need to as they haven't managed to in the past.

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Offline Age

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #43 on: January 03, 2009, 03:00:55 pm »
The copy is mine to do with as THE LAW allows not as the corporation desires. Legally they have no right to control what I bought. 

Can your car manufacturer dictate what roads you drive on or whom you buy fuel from and who may be a passenger in it?  If not then why can a publisher dictate how you use what you bought?

Poor example.

Car manufacturers can void your warranty if you use the wrong oil or if you take it in to a non partnered mechanic.

Take Dodge for example... they come with a Lifetime Warranty right?

Wrong.

Dodge carries a lifetime warranty for the original owner only.. non transferable.. not even to immediate relatives.. if the title changes names.. warranty is void. Also if you use fluids other than Full Synthetic, like Semi Synthetic or Conventional Trans Fluid or motor oil.. then warranty is void. If you change tire size from Manufacturers specs you void warranty. if you raise or lower the vehicle outside the dealership, you void the warranty.. if you replace the stereo outside a partnered company you void the warranty..

It is a product produced by Dodge, You purchased it and you own it, however you have to follow their rules to keep your lifetime warranty.

Actually I don't think that all those are valid in Canada.  Any type of maintenance here only takes a licensed mechanic and appropriate tools / parts they can't tell you who does it.  They can say that you void the warranty by using an oil that is not to specification but they can't say you may only use our brand.  The same for parts.

In any case even in your examples the company still does not claim any right to STOP you from doing these things.  With copyrighted products the BSA, RIAA and MPAA are claiming to take from you rights that the law allows.  These copyright organizations try to claim that you don't own what you bought and that the legal rights the law gives you can be taken by them as they are above the law.  With software companies they have tried to claim that you can't sell the product.  Some have even tried to claim you can't transfer between machines. 

How do you think that people will react the first time a company uses the DRM on Blu-Ray players to disable playing older discs by that company?  Do you really think the courts will hold up the "right" of the disc producer to retroactively take away your right to play a disc on your player?  How many times will you replace your (fully functional) Blu-Ray player just to play the movies you bought before saying ENOUGH?
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2009, 05:51:37 pm »
to provide a different lament over the demise of VHS, as a video professional, having made many many dubs of rough cuts, fine cuts, final cuts, director's cuts, every cut imaginable...
999 times out of 1000, a VHS would always copy and would always play back on every VHS machine ever made.
DVDs, well, I've made several hundred coasters over the years...

That is a very good point. To be honest, I have ripped every DVD I own, and keep it on a HD collection.

The reason being, is we have all seen CD's and DVD's Fall into disrepair just due to time. I think there was an article about it here in Engineering at one time.

Stephen
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Offline Age

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2009, 04:35:37 pm »
to provide a different lament over the demise of VHS, as a video professional, having made many many dubs of rough cuts, fine cuts, final cuts, director's cuts, every cut imaginable...
999 times out of 1000, a VHS would always copy and would always play back on every VHS machine ever made.
DVDs, well, I've made several hundred coasters over the years...

That is a very good point. To be honest, I have ripped every DVD I own, and keep it on a HD collection.

The reason being, is we have all seen CD's and DVD's Fall into disrepair just due to time. I think there was an article about it here in Engineering at one time.

Stephen
I can't  imagine  how big  you  hdd is.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2009, 05:00:37 pm »
to provide a different lament over the demise of VHS, as a video professional, having made many many dubs of rough cuts, fine cuts, final cuts, director's cuts, every cut imaginable...
999 times out of 1000, a VHS would always copy and would always play back on every VHS machine ever made.
DVDs, well, I've made several hundred coasters over the years...

That is a very good point. To be honest, I have ripped every DVD I own, and keep it on a HD collection.

The reason being, is we have all seen CD's and DVD's Fall into disrepair just due to time. I think there was an article about it here in Engineering at one time.

Stephen
I can't  imagine  how big  you  hdd is.

LOL, It's more like a collection of 160 gig HD's that I can swap out pretty fast.

Stephen
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Offline TAnimaL

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2009, 05:03:55 pm »
It might not be as bad as you think - a number of the ripping things I've seen allow for further compression, or movie-only ripping options  and so on. You could easily get 100+ movies onto a 500GB HD, and I just picked up one of those for less than $175. It's nice to have your DVD library a couple of clicks away, too.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2009, 06:10:43 pm »
exactly TAnimal. I've seen that those External Terabyte drives are getting cheaper and cheaper also.

I even have an old 60 gig that I use whenever I download a new patch etc. It's so much faster if for some reason I have to uninstall/Reinstall.

Stephen
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Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2009, 06:24:47 pm »
to provide a different lament over the demise of VHS, as a video professional, having made many many dubs of rough cuts, fine cuts, final cuts, director's cuts, every cut imaginable...
999 times out of 1000, a VHS would always copy and would always play back on every VHS machine ever made.
DVDs, well, I've made several hundred coasters over the years...

That is a very good point. To be honest, I have ripped every DVD I own, and keep it on a HD collection.

The reason being, is we have all seen CD's and DVD's Fall into disrepair just due to time. I think there was an article about it here in Engineering at one time.

Stephen

::wonders exactly how big stephens porno collection is::

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Offline toasty0

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2009, 08:37:34 pm »
to provide a different lament over the demise of VHS, as a video professional, having made many many dubs of rough cuts, fine cuts, final cuts, director's cuts, every cut imaginable...
999 times out of 1000, a VHS would always copy and would always play back on every VHS machine ever made.
DVDs, well, I've made several hundred coasters over the years...

That is a very good point. To be honest, I have ripped every DVD I own, and keep it on a HD collection.

The reason being, is we have all seen CD's and DVD's Fall into disrepair just due to time. I think there was an article about it here in Engineering at one time.

Stephen

::wonders exactly how big stephens porno collection is::

It is in exact proportion to his blue pill collection. :)
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Offline Centurus

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #51 on: January 06, 2009, 06:06:35 am »
to provide a different lament over the demise of VHS, as a video professional, having made many many dubs of rough cuts, fine cuts, final cuts, director's cuts, every cut imaginable...
999 times out of 1000, a VHS would always copy and would always play back on every VHS machine ever made.
DVDs, well, I've made several hundred coasters over the years...

That is a very good point. To be honest, I have ripped every DVD I own, and keep it on a HD collection.

The reason being, is we have all seen CD's and DVD's Fall into disrepair just due to time. I think there was an article about it here in Engineering at one time.

Stephen

::wonders exactly how big stephens porno collection is::

I'm wondering how often he uses said collection.
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #52 on: January 06, 2009, 07:13:30 am »
::wonders exactly how big stephens porno collection is::

Just so long as no one tells me any of the details of his cattle porn collection I don't care.
Do unto others as Frey has done unto you.
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Offline Sirgod

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #53 on: January 06, 2009, 09:13:29 am »
Blue Pill  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Cattle porn, that is Animal Husbandry to you mister. :D

There is only a few Porno Movies I have, mostly Classics, caligula, the story of O, Debbie does Dallas. come to mind.

I have heard though that that Pirates movie is one I should get, that it actualy has a (gasp) story line to it.

Stephen
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Offline Nemesis

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Re: The sad demise of the VHS tape.
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2009, 09:22:03 am »
Blue Pill  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Cattle porn, that is Animal Husbandry to you mister. :D

Stephen

I could tell you a little story about a Mennonite woman I knew briefly, but it would violate forum rules.  ;)
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