Topic: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW  (Read 20389 times)

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Offline Lepton

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #100 on: February 02, 2008, 11:51:56 pm »
I know you guys are all drooling over this Koerner design, but look at this one.  It's sort of like a 50s/60s muscle car Enterprise.

I am sure you can see the chrome details and such reminiscent of classic cars.

















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Offline Vipre

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #101 on: February 03, 2008, 12:04:21 am »
That looks hotter than hot.
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Offline Red_Sharif

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #102 on: February 03, 2008, 12:10:49 am »
That looks hotter than hot.

Definitely. How many polys in that model?

Offline Bernard Guignard

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #103 on: February 03, 2008, 05:55:30 am »
very nice  ;D

Offline I, Mudd.

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #104 on: February 05, 2008, 02:05:18 pm »
Rod ... All I can say is ...

:drool:

:trekgasm:

Lepton, Y'know, back a couple of weeks ago, I was taking a hard look at those pics ... A Connie version I am working on is kind of a polygamous marriage between that design, the one Rod has built and a few ideas of my own.

JM.

Offline AsYlUm

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #105 on: February 19, 2008, 04:24:02 am »
Very nice work there rod... and im really liking this other one too.. looks extremely high poly though.. but still fantastic work on both fronts  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD3YBxBlR5E         <-- gagarin video

Offline Cromwell

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #106 on: May 05, 2008, 06:43:32 pm »
Whatever happened to this, did rod ever release this? I was dying for this one. anyone know what happened? thank you

Offline Centurus

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #107 on: May 05, 2008, 10:29:33 pm »
Whatever happened to this, did rod ever release this? I was dying for this one. anyone know what happened? thank you

I think Rod never got permission from the author of the original model which inspired his project.  I think one of the Bridge Commander guys has the same problem.

At least that's what I heard last concerning this particular ship.
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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2008, 12:06:46 am »
Whatever happened to this, did rod ever release this? I was dying for this one. anyone know what happened? thank you

I think Rod never got permission from the author of the original model which inspired his project.  I think one of the Bridge Commander guys has the same problem.

At least that's what I heard last concerning this particular ship.

That's correct, sadly. I'd love to post it, but Gabe hasn't responded to e-mails or PMs.
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Offline MajorRacal

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #109 on: May 06, 2008, 12:34:08 pm »
All social niceties and community protocols aside, I would have to agree, particularly when you consider that Gabe's concept is unmistakably based on the Connie which is officially trademarked in and of itself.  However, considering the unpleasantness that ensues across communities when there's even a whisper of plagiarism, it's better to show restraint and show respect for the other's wishes.

Beautiful work Rod.  Shame we can only bask in her beauty from afar.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 02:12:59 pm by MajorRacal »

Offline marstone

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #110 on: May 06, 2008, 04:48:53 pm »
I have to agree with FW on this.  Basicly every model released would be considered plagerism at some point just because it is Star Trek based without permission from Paramount, or the models of the BSG on another thread.

I can understand having to ask for permission if you used actual work (graphics, ship parts) but because you seen a ship and yours had influances, that is still original work as long as you didn't copy it verbatim in looks and such (or just a cosmetic change).  Going to far down the have to get permision road would stop any ships from being released because someone can always say "I see concepts of my design in that ship" and the bad part is that that person would have concepts of someone elses design in his, etc, etc.

 A bi-line of "parts inspired by designs of so and so" should be good anough.  Would be fine with me if someone took a ship I drew and made a model based on it.  Heck even the US copywrite office lets you copywrite an update to someone elses design.

It is sad, as I have seen the flames of someone saying "NO you can't use my design at all, remove it, blah blah" but those usually are from reskining things mostly.

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Offline Centurus

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #111 on: May 06, 2008, 06:59:02 pm »
I said it because of those "Protocols" and "Niceties" Every single Connie model, kitbash, redesign, refit is a plagiarism of the original. This Connie Has too many differences from Gabe's original not to be counted as a copy. I mean the similarities between Gabe's and Rod's and even the one Lepton showed us....None of them should be released because they look like Matt Jeffery's original.... Rod built this model using his own imagination which happened to be influenced by Gabe's vision. As long as Gabe's name is given in the credits for inspiration. Wheres the problem?

I mean seriously, and with all respect. When did we all become fluffy bunnies who are so concerned with political correctness that we allow it to stifle and restrain what we have being doing here for years. Because if this what we have boiled down too then what is the point of us ever having to make a model again?

Sorry for the rant, i Don't mean to start anything here as Rod's work on this model and its textures are whats important.

 

Apparently you've forgotten all the various times this community, and others, have dealt with issues concerning other people's work being used or copied, or converted/ported without expressed consent.  Remember the ugliness those situations brought about. 

I mean, to have one or two ideas in a model that's clearly inspired by someone elses work, but the model as a whole is far different than someone elses, then I'll agree with you, you can get away with releasing said model and give credit for inspiration.

But when the concept is extremely close to what inspired you in the first place, then you're just asking for trouble.

Again, don't forget what happens everytime someone does something like this.  Extremely ugly, and the last thing this community needs is to be branded a bunch of rip offs and plagarists.
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Offline Centurus

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #112 on: May 06, 2008, 08:02:03 pm »
true, which is why i'm suggesting we all sit down in a thread and maybe agree as to where these limits are so events like those are avoided... and no offense but you yourself use connies alot (we all know you get permission) but your changes while subtle are your own. So what if someone were to cause fuss about them or any other design that shares a similarity, before someone could say its all cool people get opinionated and it turns into a flamewar.
thats how it always happens here.
Why not have a thread where the people who do all the work get the foundations laid in for some guidelines or something.

In my situation, if any one else where to approach me and say I stole their idea, it would be purely coincidental, but it would cause an arguement.  However, the likelihood of that happening is very minimal, especially since I use WZ components for the most part.

However, we don't really need to get together to lay down some ground rules as to what crosses the line and what doesn't.  If you really think about it, such ground rules have been laid down in various modding communities for a long time now, mostly through common sense.  That's how we've always operated.

Unfortunately, there are those that don't have any sense, and will do what they want, when they want with other people's work.  And most times, those people trounce out the old excuse that the original authors did the very same thing by making a copy of a copyrighted piece of material without permission from Paramount. 

However, Paramount has been aware of the various communities and their work for years.  If they wanted, they could have gone the route of the RIAA and sued every single mesher in the world that ever made a canon Trek ship 3D model.  But they haven't.

However, in communities such as ours, if we start laying down the ground rules of what we consider plagarism, and those rules contradict most other communities' rules and common sense on such things, we're not only asking for trouble, we're going out and dragging trouble to us.  Again, that's why various modelling and modding communities have a universal standard if you will, based mainly on common sense, to regulate such situations. 

The problem isn't what constitutes plagarism or not.  The problem is what people do to justify their acts when they're in a gray area.  Again that's happened in this community before, and we all know the outcome of those situations.
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Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #113 on: May 07, 2008, 05:29:41 am »
Hi guys. I took the orthos that MP posted, installed them as reference pics, and made this model as accurate to them as I could. I couldn't really claim only inspiration.

The blue glows on the saucer are from the reference model. I'm assuming warp reactors?

We, as a community, don't use other individual's designs without their permission. I don't want to go against that. I want us to be able to claim rights to our designs and not have someone point to this model and accuse us of being hypocrites. It's not worth that.

Now, with that said, we (and others) freely use commercial designs. Paramount, ADB, etc... don't have a problem because we don't cost them income. We, IMO, actually promote their IP. That's just my opinion though. If this design is sitting on Gabe's HDD waiting for a bidder to buy the commercial rights and my model might adversely affect that sale, I'd be wrong to release it and chance that happening. I've heard though that it's already been used commercially on the Ships of the Line calender. Is that true? I've never seen the calender myself. If so, then releasing it might be just as acceptable as any other commercial design is. Or possibly I'm requesting permission from the wrong source and need to ask the producers of the calender?

I'd love to release it. I like the idea that there's some of me in your games. It just might take a bit of time.
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Offline Vipre

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #114 on: May 07, 2008, 06:20:31 am »
I've heard though that it's already been used commercially on the Ships of the Line calender. Is that true?


Yes, stated in a post by Mr. Koerner himself. I don't recall exactly if he said he needed one more drawing for the calender and it was something he had laying around or if it was something he made specifically for the calender. Either way it's in there.

Screeny bottom left



As for the overall topic at the moment my personal opinion, despite wanting to see this released, is one of respect regarding your wanting an OK from the designer before putting it out there. Objectively though I have a hard time with the idea that someone should be restricted from looking at an image/photo/item on the roadside and creating a likeness of it, especially when no profit is being made on that likeness. Needless to say I'm evenly split on the issue.
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Offline marstone

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #115 on: May 07, 2008, 07:16:08 am »
  My comments are in general of course, over all this comunity has done an awesome job of getting out mods and keeping it civil.

Oh and Ron, the ship is looking awesome.  Keep it up.  Have always enjoyed seeing the work put out by the people on here.  if I like them or not, I am usually awed by the work done.
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Offline Cromwell

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #116 on: May 08, 2008, 02:51:30 am »
It's in the calendar? huh... Anyone know of any other way to get a hold of gabe then? Anything I can do Rod to help bring about the means neccesary for the release. Its just seems a shame, You recreated the model beautifully and I've been dying to get my grubby little hands on it. Modellers like you and Asylum just create some of the most beautiful pieces, the hours I've spent just admiring the detail on the Garigan. I apologize if I'm come off as the begger here, I mean no disrespect to anyone.

Offline Centurus

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #117 on: May 08, 2008, 06:11:47 am »
It's in the calendar? huh... Anyone know of any other way to get a hold of gabe then? Anything I can do Rod to help bring about the means neccesary for the release. Its just seems a shame, You recreated the model beautifully and I've been dying to get my grubby little hands on it. Modellers like you and Asylum just create some of the most beautiful pieces, the hours I've spent just admiring the detail on the Garigan. I apologize if I'm come off as the begger here, I mean no disrespect to anyone.

Trust me, no one here is going to feel disrespected by that post.  I'm pretty sure of that.  You're not the only one that would like to get this particular model.
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Offline Cromwell

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #118 on: May 08, 2008, 01:08:37 pm »
don't suppose you have the URL for his myspace?

Offline Rod ONeal

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Re: OT: You have to see this !!! WOW
« Reply #119 on: May 08, 2008, 04:55:33 pm »
I've tried e-mailing him and PMing him at trekbbs forums. I've just sent him a PM at scifi-meshes as well. I also tried the publishers of the 2007 SotL calender. The person who fielded the request there doesn't seem to get it. I can't get through to her that I don't want to post images from their calender lol. I don't believe that they have any rights to the IP anyway. It appears they only have rights to use the particular image.
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