Topic: Warming up the Forum for the Vulcan show tonight. (Read 18524 times)

Sirgod · « **on:** November 19, 2004, 03:16:05 pm »

With the Vulcan Civil war coming up, and the Bits and Pieces RatBoy has Given here, i'm looking forward to this arc. hehe, the Othernight, I dreamnt that Nimoy made a Guest appearance on the show.

Stephen

Ravok · « **Reply #1 on:** November 19, 2004, 03:27:49 pm »

Quote from: Stephen on November 19, 2004, 03:16:05 pm

With the Vulcan Civil war coming up, and the Bits and Pieces RatBoy has Given here, i'm looking forward to this arc. hehe, the Othernight, I dreamnt that Nimoy made a Guest appearance on the show.

Stephen

I have my DVR warmed up and ready to go. If they continue like they did in the last 3 shows we are in for a treat.

Sirgod · « **Reply #2 on:** November 19, 2004, 08:04:36 pm »

Wow, That was a Great Episode, and It looks like It will just keep Getting better.

Sehlat's man. Sehlats in the show. that was Too cool. numerous Referances, letting us understand more about the Vulcans.

incredible IMHO.

stephen

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #3 on:** November 19, 2004, 08:09:30 pm »

Yeah, I enjoyed it. I always have to wait for other people to point out references, but I did catch something about Surak and Mt. Seleya (the ship full of Zombie Vulcans in the Expanse was called the Seleya).

Also, Indian dude said some word in Vulcan that meant remember (Spock said remember to McCoy when he transfered his Katra).

Ravok · « **Reply #4 on:** November 19, 2004, 08:16:06 pm »

I thought it was exelent! I hope they show a Lematya. And the first refrence to T`Pau.

E_Look · « **Reply #5 on:** November 19, 2004, 10:30:31 pm »

I always thought that High Command of theirs was a bit slimy.

Anybody dig that cool hologram graphic projected from the fake medallion? I can almost see the princess flickering in it; too bad it was not a garage they were in.

dragoon · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2004, 10:02:15 am »

You dreamt Nimoy made an appearence???
Wow, you are a Trek fan

Sirgod · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2004, 10:31:48 am »

snicker. I don't get much sleep so when I do, My dreams are crazy. I was just telling the wife , that I dreamnt that we where out in the Vegitable garden, talking with the Nieghbors, when a little Black boy came up, wanting to know If Denise was going to be Growing Ketchup again.

Crazy stuff.

Stephen

Rat Boy · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2004, 11:17:43 am »

Quote from: Ravok on November 19, 2004, 08:16:06 pm

I thought it was exelent! I hope they show a Lematya. And the first refrence to T`Pau.

That was actually a sehlat. Gotta love the line of "Vulcan children never feed their pets late."

Also, did anyone catch the line from Arev about "those who walk under the raptor's wings?" Gee, I wonder who he could have been talking about...

E_Look · « **Reply #9 on:** November 20, 2004, 02:10:31 pm »

I'm clueless about the raptor wing ref...

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #10 on:** November 20, 2004, 03:32:33 pm »

He was referring to a battle between Surak's followers of logic against some group (something about raptor wings).

It probably refers to those who did not believe in Surak's teachings and left the planet to become Romulans.

Mentat Jon · « **Reply #11 on:** November 20, 2004, 06:00:55 pm »

I watched " The Forge" is was good!!

Lieutenant_Q · « **Reply #12 on:** November 20, 2004, 10:10:40 pm »

Jeez, I dont know if its just Coto's wiriting style or what, but I actually felt sorry for Soval. Throughout the first three seasons I fingered him as a Romulan agent...now... I really hope this High Command goes down and Soval remains at his post.

Sirgod · « **Reply #13 on:** November 20, 2004, 10:40:06 pm »

I tell you what first got me into the show guys, It was the Classic TOS music at the very Beggining , you know the Little scene before they started the Opening Credits.

Stephen

Rat Boy · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2004, 12:16:27 am »

Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on November 20, 2004, 10:10:40 pm

Jeez, I dont know if its just Coto's wiriting style or what,

Manny Coto didn't write "The Forge;" it was written by Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens, authors of the novels Prime Directive and Federation, and likely the envy of every employee at the Trek division of Pocket Books.

F9thDigi · « **Reply #15 on:** November 21, 2004, 05:32:03 am »

Wow. Just seen The Forge. The writing in the fourth season is soooo much better than anything I can remember from the other 3.
I can't wait to see the rest!!!

Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2004, 02:26:18 am »

Ok, does anyone here NOT think that Arev gave Archer his and Surak's katra? Funny though that in TOS the Vulcans use mind melds and such, but they are frowned upon during Archers era.

I have also wondered why the Romulans dont seem to use their "powers". From all the novels I have read, the early Vulcans used "psyonic" powers in combat. Remember the psyonic resonator in TNG?

F9thDigi · « **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2004, 04:22:33 am »

Quote from: TheShadow on November 22, 2004, 02:26:18 am

Ok, does anyone here NOT think that Arev gave Archer his and Surak's katra? Funny though that in TOS the Vulcans use mind melds and such, but they are frowned upon during Archers era.

I have also wondered why the Romulans dont seem to use their "powers". From all the novels I have read, the early Vulcans used "psyonic" powers in combat. Remember the psyonic resonator in TNG?

I think he certainly gave him his own katra, and its possible he gave him or carried Suraks Katra. Interesting though. If the Vulcans there pass on katra's to one another its very Trill in a way, except for the worm!

Ravok · « **Reply #18 on:** November 22, 2004, 05:54:50 am »

Quote from: TheShadow on November 22, 2004, 02:26:18 am

Ok, does anyone here NOT think that Arev gave Archer his and Surak's katra? Funny though that in TOS the Vulcans use mind melds and such, but they are frowned upon during Archers era.

I have also wondered why the Romulans dont seem to use their "powers". From all the novels I have read, the early Vulcans used "psyonic" powers in combat. Remember the psyonic resonator in TNG?

I read in one of the books that the Romulans feared those with the abilitys so they eliminated them. ( You have to remember this was not too long after the era of the mind lords) So that is has been bred out, or dormant in their population.

Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385 · « **Reply #19 on:** November 22, 2004, 03:18:20 pm »

Quote from: Ravok on November 22, 2004, 05:54:50 am

Quote from: TheShadow on November 22, 2004, 02:26:18 am
Ok, does anyone here NOT think that Arev gave Archer his and Surak's katra? Funny though that in TOS the Vulcans use mind melds and such, but they are frowned upon during Archers era.

I have also wondered why the Romulans dont seem to use their "powers". From all the novels I have read, the early Vulcans used "psyonic" powers in combat. Remember the psyonic resonator in TNG?

I read in one of the books that the Romulans feared those with the abilitys so they eliminated them. ( You have to remember this was not too long after the era of the mind lords) So that is has been bred out, or dormant in their population.

The reason for the exodus was because Surak taught "logic" only. He wanted to bring in an era of peace. It doesnt seem "logical" to me that the Romulans would eliminate those with powers. They were very warlike and those type of powers would have given them an advantage.

Just me thinking out loud...

Sirgod · « **Reply #20 on:** November 26, 2004, 08:03:31 pm »

Watched the Second Part tonight.

Stephens Jaw Dropped.

E_Look · « **Reply #21 on:** November 26, 2004, 08:55:51 pm »

Yeah! That part with Spock's justice of the peace and Archer was something, wasn't it!

And, I'll say this much without giving anything away- just what IS the difference between an emotional Vulcan and a Romulan, anyway?

Rat Boy · « **Reply #22 on:** November 26, 2004, 11:08:46 pm »

Again with the blatant liberal message? According to ENT:

V'Las = George W. Bush

Andoria = Iraq

Syrranites = Democrats

If that's the case, GO V'LAS!

E_Look · « **Reply #23 on:** November 27, 2004, 01:30:40 pm »

Well, we COULD say V'Las is the Kaiser, Andoria, France, and the Syranites the reluctant Americans.

I mean, an ink blot test looks like different things to different pund... uh, people!

Mentat Jon · « **Reply #24 on:** November 27, 2004, 05:41:58 pm »

whoever is writing this plotline they should keep him he earned my vieweship back again. and I never normallly give a show ( or anything or anyone else for that matter) a 2nd chance.

Commander La'ra · « **Reply #25 on:** November 27, 2004, 09:48:17 pm »

The Stevens have been writing Star Trek novels for years, and while I think some of their ideas are very...'80's Pocket Book Trek...they do know what they're doing. I haven't seen the episode now, but finding out they're involved makes me anxious to.

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #26 on:** November 27, 2004, 09:52:06 pm »

Actually, lots of people are writing in this story arc. In the first episode, it was Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens (their first episode for the series). This episode was written by Andre Bormanis (who's best episodes were Silent Enemy from the first season and Countdown this season, which he didn't write alone. The rest of the episodes he's written haven't been very noteworthy).

I think both of them did a very good job with this story (it seems kind of difficult to keep things consistant when a different writer writes the next episode).

Commander La'ra · « **Reply #27 on:** November 27, 2004, 10:31:38 pm »

Quote from: Alidar Jarok on November 27, 2004, 09:52:06 pm

I think both of them did a very good job with this story (it seems kind of difficult to keep things consistant when a different writer writes the next episode).

That's actually one of the things I miss about TOS. They had different writers that you never really knew what you were gonna get with the next episode.

E_Look · « **Reply #28 on:** November 28, 2004, 04:43:25 pm »

Well, I suspect that was because the show was simply so new. Now that we've all seen TOS ('cept for the li'l kids posting here), TMPs, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and now Enterprise, I think we all might have developed an instinctive sense of what we could expect, never mind the next episode, but what will happen after the next commerical!

I was fairly surprised by that passionate, if hateful, leader of the High Command- he'd kill his own!

Dash Jones · « **Reply #29 on:** November 28, 2004, 05:30:46 pm »

Who you calling a li'l kid?

Well, I have seen the first two seasons now, just waiting till the third one comes out.

Ravok · « **Reply #30 on:** November 28, 2004, 05:32:52 pm »

Quote from: E_Look on November 28, 2004, 04:43:25 pm

Well, I suspect that was because the show was simply so new. Now that we've all seen TOS ('cept for the li'l kids posting here), TMPs, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and now Enterprise, I think we all might have developed an instinctive sense of what we could expect, never mind the next episode, but what will happen after the next commerical!

I was fairly surprised by that passionate, if hateful, leader of the High Command- he'd kill his own!

I suprised at the person myself. Imbeginning to wonder if he is a Romulan mole. He seems to be doing his best to break the Earth Vucan alliance, and start a war with Andoria.

And if you really think about it the last thing the Romulans would want, is Vulcan to follow the true way of Surak. This would throw a big wrench into their "reunification"

plans.

I can't wait to see how this all pans out. But you are right E-Look, somthings NOT right about this guy.

GDA-S'Cipio · « **Reply #31 on:** November 28, 2004, 07:43:50 pm »

Quote from: Ravok on November 28, 2004, 05:32:52 pm

I suprised at the person myself. Imbeginning to wonder if he is a Romulan mole. He seems to be doing his best to break the Earth Vucan alliance, and start a war with Andoria.

And if you really think about it the last thing the Romulans would want, is Vulcan to follow the true way of Surak. This would throw a big wrench into their "reunification" plans.

I can't wait to see how this all pans out. But you are right E-Look, somthings NOT right about this guy.

All the Vulcan's show way too much emotion. It's like the actors aren't even trying. I suppose its a hard role for an actor, since they spend years learning how to "emote", but still..... how hard is it to just hold a blank face for 15 seconds?

Anyway, look at the bad guy's motivation from a logical viewpoint. The Andorians are using their scans of the Xindi weapon (from when they had it in their hold last season) to build a new weapon of their own. Logically, their target will be Vulcan. Therefore, logically, they must be destroyed before they get their weapon built. (Just like the humans sent out Enterprise to stop the Xindi last season.) This plan will save Vulcan, therefore, logically, anyone who opposes it must be wiped out.

He might be a Romulan plant. But he doesn't have to be. The path of logic is cold enough to be used in many directions and it has no heart. Once pointed, you just keep going.

-S'Cipio

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #32 on:** November 28, 2004, 08:48:51 pm »

I didn't mind him looking furious when talking to Trip (since it could have just been for intimidation), but, even though it seemed to a lesser degree, he seemed angry the rest of the time.

Actually, if I think about it, he probably showed less emotion when he Admiral Leyton

E_Look · « **Reply #33 on:** November 28, 2004, 08:51:30 pm »

Quote from: Dash Jones on November 28, 2004, 05:30:46 pm

Who you calling a li'l kid?

Well, I have seen the first two seasons now, just waiting till the third one comes out.

Shoot. Busted. Where's Skyflyer when you need him??

Rat Boy · « **Reply #34 on:** November 28, 2004, 10:41:20 pm »

Shhhh. Save the Romulan talk for three months or so.

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #35 on:** November 29, 2004, 09:21:41 pm »

I'm excited

Ravok · « **Reply #36 on:** November 29, 2004, 09:27:33 pm »

Quote from: Alidar Jarok on November 29, 2004, 09:21:41 pm

I'm excited

You know me too!!!!

Commander La'ra · « **Reply #37 on:** November 30, 2004, 09:13:25 am »

Quote from: E_Look on November 28, 2004, 04:43:25 pm

Well, I suspect that was because the show was simply so new. Now that we've all seen TOS ('cept for the li'l kids posting here), TMPs, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and now Enterprise, I think we all might have developed an instinctive sense of what we could expect, never mind the next episode, but what will happen after the next commerical!

Quite true, though I could do that with TNG from the start...TOS was never as easy. You never knew if the Klingons would be defeated or if Kirk would have to violate the Prime Directive just to maintain the balance of power.

Enterprise has surprised me more times than Voyager or TNG ever did, one of the reasons I've stuck with it.

Quote

I was fairly surprised by that passionate, if hateful, leader of the High Command- he'd kill his own!

Having seen the episode now, I have to agree. Most Trek bad guys aren't quite so eager for blood. That it was a Vulcan willing to blast his own people out of existence increased the shock value slightly.

Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385 · « **Reply #38 on:** December 01, 2004, 04:47:55 am »

Ive been waiting for the episode where 7of9 travels back in time. T'Pol and seven get into a nude Jello wrestling match for the Orion Syndicate. They label it "The Slammin' Silicone" grudgematch.

Rat Boy · « **Reply #39 on:** December 03, 2004, 02:19:59 pm »

The early reviews for the finale of the triology tonight look pretty good, including a couple twists or two.

Sirgod · « **Reply #40 on:** December 03, 2004, 07:03:27 pm »

whoot, Here we go, Last part of the Trilogy.

T minus 2 minutes untill launch.

Stephen

Minor Edit, I had to run back into the Kitchen to Finish Dinner, and when I came back, the Wife had the Remote in her hand.

Denise, My wife, whom I love more then Myself, Is here By Grounded from touching any Electronical Device for the nest Hour. Damn, I hat having to abuse her, But some things are Very Important.

stephen

E_Look · « **Reply #41 on:** December 03, 2004, 08:48:32 pm »

Okay, I hate spoilers, so you won't get any from me, and seeing as how I'm the first to jabber about it:

IT WAS VERY GOOD!!

THIS THREE PART SERIES WAS EXCELLENT!!!

And, if you missed it, see it on the rebroadcast day... and don't miss ANYTHING!

Stephen, I hope you taped it or can catch it again. I watched with my wife and younger one; the older one was out at church... and if I didn't tape it, he'd flip! But the wife and younger one... well they don't have the discipline of dyed-in-the-wool Trek fans like my brothers and myself, so they caused me to miss snippets of dialogue here and there.

I'M GOING TO WATCH THE TAPE AGAIN TONIGHT! That's how good I think it was (that's how crazy I really am, too, when it comes to [good] Star Trek episodes or arcs.

I have to confess, earlier last year, I missed many episodes, and it didn't bug me at all. Tonight (and since the beginning of the resolution of the Xindi schindig) I sped and just squeaked by amber lights, weaving more than a boxer down the highway and streets, just to make sure I don't miss a second of it.

Again, great SFX.

Boy, I'd love to see in the near future a remake of TOS with new (and talented) actors with today's SFX technology applied!

Maybe some of our own modelers from these forums can apply to do the CGI ships and stuff. If their stuff could look so good via an SFC game still or .rec file, imagine how good they'd look on TV!!

Tirus · « **Reply #42 on:** December 03, 2004, 09:17:29 pm »

Two Pointy Ears Up!

Took Enterprise long enough, but the Enterprise writers finally got their act together. This 3 part Vulcan story line was pretty darn good.

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #43 on:** December 03, 2004, 10:04:20 pm »

I definately enjoyed it. Too tired tonight to say more than that.

GarrethMacLeod · « **Reply #44 on:** December 03, 2004, 10:14:51 pm »

an excellent episode. i am sooooo enjoying this season

E_Look · « **Reply #45 on:** December 03, 2004, 10:24:00 pm »

I sincerely hope that UPN/Paramount doesn't pull a NBC.

Rat Boy · « **Reply #46 on:** December 03, 2004, 11:07:15 pm »

Cue complaints about the surprise guest's forehead in 5...4...3...2...1...

Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385 · « **Reply #47 on:** December 03, 2004, 11:18:47 pm »

Quote from: Rat Boy on December 03, 2004, 11:07:15 pm

Cue complaints about the surprise guest's forehead in 5...4...3...2...1...

Im sure a decent plastic surgeon could fix it....

Ok, who else guessed what was going to be in the last scene with the "evil Vulcan"? The one where he was told his disappearance would cause suspicion. I knew by the second of the three episodes what was comming.

Rat Boy · « **Reply #48 on:** December 03, 2004, 11:23:36 pm »

I think the real surprise from that was that they actually went through with it. This is probably the first time that ENT has taken the logical and "cool" path with plot movement. Hopefully, the first of many times.

Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385 · « **Reply #49 on:** December 03, 2004, 11:29:14 pm »

I have to agree. The last 6 episodes were a pleasant surprise. Hopefully, this is a taste of things to come.

E_Look · « **Reply #50 on:** December 04, 2004, 12:41:52 am »

Well, they did disappoint me in one way- RERUNS NEXT WEEK ALREADY!!!

I suppose, though, that the suspense will keep me in anticipation 'til the release of a newie.

I won't read any of RatBoy's spoiler threads so my fun won't be... spoiled... but bring 'em on! Klingon konfrontations! Romulan-Earth (or early Federation) War! Tellarite bending of Federation laws! Orion mafia thuggery! Heck, throw the Suliban and Xindi in the mix... why not? They'd make great "next step" UFP members on top of the core of Earth, Vulcan, Andoria, and Tellar, or one or two whoeverelses they can come up with that won't compromise canon. Hey... I'm no SFBer but I love SFC; I wouldn't mind seeing Mirak, Hydrans, ISC, Gorn (well, maybe too early for them), Lyrans. I won't even mind if Enterprise incorporates _ _ _ _ _ photons... but only on the NX-01; I mean they've already got "phase cannons", and I HAVE SEEN POINT DEFENSE ON SOME ALIEN SHIP IN ONE OLD EPISODE! And, we have MACOs on Starfleet ships, already doing beam in/out hit and runs!

I'd really get a kick if they feature a ship design by one of our modeling forum members!

... Uh, but then again, maybe we'll need to pop a game CD into our TVs just to catch the show!

Rat Boy · « **Reply #51 on:** December 04, 2004, 10:43:46 am »

Anyone notice T'Pau's sehlat call? Anyone else recognize it from The Animated Series?

Ravok · « **Reply #52 on:** December 04, 2004, 12:19:45 pm »

Quote from: Rat Boy on December 04, 2004, 10:43:46 am

Anyone notice T'Pau's sehlat call? Anyone else recognize it from The Animated Series?

Are you serious? If thats the case thats outstanding!!!!

Talk about continuity.

Lepton · « **Reply #53 on:** December 04, 2004, 05:54:07 pm »

I thought this episode was the worst of the three. It seemed as if they were trying to wrap things up pretty quickly whereas the other two episodes had some nice pacing. Tucker and Reed were totally unbelieveable as disagreeing senior officers regarding warning the Andorians. That scene needed some motion in it. Overall, this last episode seemed poorly directed, the dialogue stilted and choppy, and the scenes far too short. However, these triology episodes I think are truely fantastic.

Nice resolution with the administrator in that last episode and it would seem to lead into future story line very well. Lots of nice TOS references, especially those Vulcan weapons that were used in Spock's Pan Faer (?) episode. I hate to say it but this seems like the best season so far considering the show's precarious position.

Rat Boy · « **Reply #54 on:** December 05, 2004, 02:40:45 pm »

I only just realized this, but did you notice that the Romulan at the end is the same guy as the head of the Vulcan commando team sent after Archer, T'Pol, and T'Pau? That's why V'Las was so angry AT HIM in the caves; the Romulan was supposed to kill all of them to prevent them from returning the Kir'Shara to Shir'kahr. Also, this opens up a very, very, very interesting issue. The Romulan told T'Pol that they served together during the "Tomed campaign" (a nod to the Tomed Incident); just how long have the Romulans been infiltrating Vulcan?

Alidar Jarok · « **Reply #55 on:** December 05, 2004, 06:39:17 pm »

I suppose he's the same guy, although it really is hard to tell (I figure they would have made it more obvious if they really wanted it to be the same person).

Rat Boy · « **Reply #56 on:** December 05, 2004, 06:57:19 pm »

Quote from: Alidar Jarok on December 05, 2004, 06:39:17 pm

I suppose he's the same guy, although it really is hard to tell.

Actually, if you compare them, the only real difference other than clothes is the forehead and the tone of voice. The dialogue between them works completely if the Romulan is the Vulcan commando. I found this comparison shot at the Trek BBS.

Quote

(I figure they would have made it more obvious if they really wanted it to be the same person).

But they also wanted to make it perfectly clear that he was Romulan. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is the forehead. The uniform alone would have been enough for me, but since not everyone has seen Nemesis...

Lepton · « **Reply #57 on:** December 05, 2004, 08:44:04 pm »

It was my impression that the other romulan was the person that was some sort of security chief who was the guy who actually took the bomb into the embassy. It was the person that was revealed in the mind meld with the Starfleet officer on duty at the embassy entrance.

If it was this other person that you suggest, then it certainly opens up a whole can of worms, but if it was the guy that I think it is, then it just reinforces the idea of certain upper ranks being compromised. Either way, it's none to good for the Vulcans.

E_Look · « **Reply #58 on:** December 05, 2004, 09:43:51 pm »

It was hard for me to actually tell. I'm going to watch what YOU guys think in the coming days... and then what Paramount thinks!

GDA-S'Cipio · « **Reply #59 on:** December 06, 2004, 03:43:50 pm »

Quote from: Rat Boy on December 05, 2004, 06:57:19 pm

But they also wanted to make it perfectly clear that he was Romulan. Unfortunately, the only way to do that is the forehead. The uniform alone would have been enough for me, but since not everyone has seen Nemesis...

This uniform should have been sufficient to get the message across:

If not, just have the actor say something like, "Romulus is very displeased with your failure."

They only put the ridges on his forehead because they are all heretics.

At least they didn't go with that whacked-out skintone from Nemesis

-S'Cipio the purist

E_Look · « **Reply #60 on:** December 07, 2004, 09:49:51 pm »

Romulans Schmomulans. Vulcans Schmulcans. Earth Schmearth. Andoria Schmandoria.

I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE THE ACTUAL FOUNDING OF THE UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS!!!

(And *&@!# Daniels better not be hanging about in the shadows anywhere in the ep!)

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