Topic: Fallen's Workbench (W.I.P's - Pic Heavy)

[Fallen_Warrior]

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[Kreeargh]

Set up a cylnder thats got atleast 25 sides and say 8 sections tall. You will be working with 2 viewports the perspective solid and left or right wireframe. Get to editable mesh and work with the verts in the side view. Select the first set and scale it down and move them forward to give you some space to select other sets for more scaleing. Keep scaleing and moveing the verts untill you get the basic shape you want, then comes the hard part working on the back end to get the flat bottom and shuttle bay. That can be done in several ways but the quickest might be to bolien cut it , Gmax bolien opprand is alot better than max4 and even max 9 demo, it wont cause as many errors for some reason but its still not perfect. To cut the bottom area create another cylnder in the side view with only 1 section tall and about 10 sides will be fine for this, In vert mode squash the cylnder down a little and scale it fatter grab all of the bottom verts and move them down ,mess with that cylnder a little to get a reverse view of what you want to cut out of the hull then bolien subtraction ab should cut it and fill the mesh.   Not much good but a start 
 Note 25 sides isnt Real smooth but you can subdivide the mesh later if you want to bring up the poly count. Ill wright up a little pic tutorial if you want to see exactly what i am talking about .

[Kreeargh]

Thank you for that dude, I can make a Connie Hull, well to a degree, mainly the alcove gives me problems and I have no luck with boliens. So building something myself is a bit out of my league right now. But I could give it another shot.

Right now I'm using Gmax to build it so I can port to .mod for better viewing and .mod is the only got I have of it.

To be honest, I might just cave in and Bash some other parts into it... As I doubt anyone will help me with mapping, apart from pointing out a tut.

Ill help contact me on msn. I made another tos type hull screwin with the pic tute anyway, id like some imput before i show it to public.
Maping it can be easy in a way use 1 map for the hull applyed useing the cylnder option it will rap the map around the mesh then you mess with the #s  on the right pannel to get the map to fit the way u want. Then other areas can be applyed via flat plainer maping with seperate maps.

[FoaS_XC]

When making a cylinder, always do something that is divisible by 4 (unless you're doing something very specific where it is needed, but that is actually very rare)

[FoaS_XC]

There's a non-OCD and pretty practical reason to make 4-divisible-edged cylinders: it makes your life much easier when it comes to welding them together.

[Centurus]

The hull I'm making for this ship is a 28 side cylinder with several length segments.  She's roughly half done.  The general shape and contours are done, shuttlebay is done, at least as best as I can do.  I'm going to be starting on the front end and getting that taken care of.  Here's a single pic.

[Centurus]

It's true, he does.  He asks me so much that I had to start up my own shipyards cause Starfleet didn't want me damaging anymore hulls with my blowtorch.  Speaking of which, where did I put that blowtorch.....*sees several Galaxy Class starships on fire*  Nevermind, I think I found it.

[Kreeargh]

Fallen Warrior & Centurus  Beatutifull work so far i cant wait to see the results. Fallen are you going to merge the meshs to get rid of the unused areas or keep it bash freindly and export it all as full parts?

[Centurus]

Work on the twin secondary hulls nears completion.  I've gotten the hard stuff done and out of the way, and F_W can back me up on that.  Now comes some smaller details, and then the ship is basically ready for a mapper.

[FoaS_XC]

Welcome to my world.

[Magnum357]

Welcome to my world.

here here Foas.   

Fallen Warrior, try not too get to wraped up on comments.  Sometimes, I get negative comments about my art anways.  So.....    Maybe no comment is a good thing?   

[Kreeargh]

Welcome to my world.

here here Foas.   

Fallen Warrior, try not too get to wraped up on comments.  Sometimes, I get negative comments about my art anways.  So.....    Maybe no comment is a good thing?   

Sorry but i dont agree this NO comment additude is whats wrong with this world. - is just as good as + it helps to improve ideas of others. No offence please but this type of thinking the " I cant do anything cause it will never fix anything"  has got to end.

[wulf111]

I know how you feel about this FW look at my Arcadia thread 200+ views and only 12 replys and 4 of those were my own. i know right now alot of people are wrapped up in the Christmas thing and don't have a lot of time,  i know i don't. as for the model, i have never liked the looks of the design way too much like the Loknar class. but your modeling skills are coming along very well. just remember that the cut function can be your friend

[FoaS_XC]

I was bothered by the no comment mentality, and to a degree I still am, but not as much as you are. Then, I realized that I wasn't doing all this for any of you, I'm doing it because its fun for me, hearing comments on a release is a bonus. Plus, whenever I am on the Dyna teamspeak, I hear at least three people say "Hey, I love your ISC pack" and "good job with the kzinti"

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

I can't understand fully what you mean by the no comment mentality, but I kind of get what you're talking about -- for example, it's harder than it used to be to strike up a conversation in the 'General Discussion' forum anymore, and most of the threads here are no longer about SFC. I know that it's impossible to make people be interested in an old game (beyond the idea of an SFC4, but that's a whole different topic), but it can be frustrating too.

I try to comment on models that I feel I have something to say about, but I don't know all that much about modeling or ship designs beyond just a little fooling around. In other words, I try not to make a fool of myself  . But I'll turn off that worry and just say what I'm thinking: that's a badass phaser bank!

[marstone]

Yes Indeed. No pics yet, well there might be one in the form of a question.....
That question being:
How would you guys like to see a more.... Hybridised Idea of JJ and TOS with... A Turret Bank

don't like turrets.

[Magnum357]

Well, I will say that I like this "Roosevelt" ship more then JJ Abrahams Enterprise.   No offense to JJ Abrahams Trek, but that ship is just .... wrong to me.  So I guess that is a more positive comment about your new work there. 

I still don't understand why you are worried about the number of comments.  I worked on a few Battlestar Galactica models a while back and got more bad comments then good comments when they were released and put on www.battleclinic.com, yet the downloads have been next to nothing compared to other models.  Granted, they are pretty simple work (low poly, small texture models) but enjoyable to create aswell.  Be happy you are at least getting some downloads of your art, there are some modelers out there that hardly get any downloads or comments at all.  I hope I'm not sounding negative.

I do agree though, comments do help out the community more then no comments.  Compared to the SFC1/2 days (if I remember correctly) this community was not near as large as back then.  Perhaps its the holidays and people are doing other things right now.   

[marstone]

for me updating TOS needs nothing more then new textures on the outside, ship styles I am happy with.  Just the fully plain skin could look alittle nicer. 

[marstone]

Well textures (Once someone volunteers to mapp her) I will try to keep as TOS as possible. And I do mean that. Detail wise I'm aiming for the Enhanced TOS look. I.E slightly more noticeable aztec, bit of extra fleshed out detail there, Maybe a slight change in the font for the registries. But noting overly garish. This was why I tried updating the phaser bank idea, without losing the original shapes.
So I do see your point. And since your one of the more Puritan TOS lovers. When it comes to textures. Your opinion will be most welcome As I've never been too confident with TOS textures... Their simpleness makes things harder sometimes.

I will agree that simple textures can be alot harder as you can't cover up with eye wash (lots of detail to distract with).

[Kreeargh]

LS proved weathering  makes  simple tos beautifull 

Well textures (Once someone volunteers to mapp her) I will try to keep as TOS as possible. And I do mean that. Detail wise I'm aiming for the Enhanced TOS look. I.E slightly more noticeable aztec, bit of extra fleshed out detail there, Maybe a slight change in the font for the registries. But noting overly garish. This was why I tried updating the phaser bank idea, without losing the original shapes.
So I do see your point. And since your one of the more Puritan TOS lovers. When it comes to textures. Your opinion will be most welcome As I've never been too confident with TOS textures... Their simpleness makes things harder sometimes.

I will agree that simple textures can be alot harder as you can't cover up with eye wash (lots of detail to distract with).

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

I think the phaser banks are great as is.

Regarding the TOS textures, I like it best when the ships are shiny white, almost glistening (but not too much). A little weathering is nice, but not so much that the ship is gray. I also think it looks best when the ship framework/the edges of the individual panels are very faint, almost unnoticeable.

For example:
... although maybe a little glossier and whiter would be perfect. But this is my opinion, and maybe other folks think too glossy/shiny would be cheesy.

[Magnum357]

Fallen Warrior, I do agree with Marstone on this.  If your going to improve a TOS model, most of the time, its just designing a good texture for it.  I personally like TMP markings on any TOS ship.  I personally think it really helps out TOS models considerably.  I've tried different styles of Aztec platings, I'm not very good at it but it does help TOS models aswell.

Hey what do ya know, your gettings some comments!   

[Centurus]

The original model was low poly so that it didn't really have as much detail to the mesh as most of us are accustomed to seeing these days, that's the reason for the rebuild, and the reason I'm doing those X ships, which, by the way, I haven't forgotten.  I will be getting back to them soon.

Anyway, we did take a couple liberties with the new mesh, adding in a couple things that weren't identical to the original.  It's our hope that such details only add to the model, not take away.

So, overall, this was one situation that warranted a new mesh, but other times, I would agree with most here, new textures would do the trick.

But F_W is right, we need a mapper, and a good one.  Any volunteers?

[Major A Payne]

Hi all. Has anyone attempted to speak with Aceman on scifi-meshes to see if he knows an email address for the original creator of the high poly CGI model (Floodcasso2)?? I never had any contact details for him, so was unable to get in contact myself. I've also spent a few hours this morning trying to locate the original mesh but with the amount of cds and dvds I have it might be quite a long time, but I will keep looking.

[KBF_Gow]

I'll be interested to see how this turns out.  I did dl the version from battleclinic, but, I too prefer my TOS Flathead target ships to be a slight off white with discreet panel hints, and preferably not a lot of aztec on the saucers.  Also, I agree that the ship needs more standard Connie type warps, as you are making.  Overall, I think the vessel is shaping up well.

It is a far cry from the days I reworked the low poly taldren meshes into something bearable to look at (at least to me, I hate KA klingons).   Machines are so much better, I have been spending the little time I have when my hands aren't on fire from arthritus to redo all my old ships with at least 512 maps or better.

re commentary, as a grizzled old vet from the taldren boards, commentary is a good or bad thing, we used to have a certain number of prima-donna modelers who threw ring tailed hissy fits at ANY criticism at ALL, regardless of constructive or not.   I recall one getting mad enough to close his site down for a time.    A few guys seemed to have egos that required every post to be "omg that's amazing" or nothing at all.

I recall building a ship once for Bernard.  Was fun, cause Bernard wanted things right, and had no qualms about telling you they weren't.  I did the thing with the wrong version warps. 

[KBF_Gow]

I will make a variant with "standard" nacelles. But so far, there isn't much from mine that's too different from the original. Apart from some minor details, it has been pointed out that these nacelles aren't everyone's cup of tea.

hmm, guess I'm looking at the nacelles on the Roosevelt from battleclinic, they are much flatter and have a large rectangular section protruding underneath, which is why I prefer what you are doing.

I think they look good, didn't mean to imply otherwise.

[FoaS_XC]

I can't tell for certain, due to it not being smoothed, but I would say trying to get a few more edges in those nacelles would be good - make it rounder. I would also make the shuttlebutt less pointy and add some edges on the under-curve, too.

[GotAFarmYet?]

It looks like you modelled some of the smaller details which would have best been left on a texture, as those eat up polies and will not be seen in most cases. This will be really bad when you smooth it as that tends to increase the poly count.

[Centurus]

Last I checked, smoothing didn't bump the poly count, just distorts the surface appearance to make it more rounded.  As for the aft end of the shuttlebays, they look alright as is, as trying to redo them would add more polys to the hulls than even I'm comfortable with, also it was a pain to do the last time.  Don't want to repeat the process.  When the ship is done and available for download, if you want to try and improve those areas Fury, feel free.  Personally, I'd love to see what you could do because this was my first attempt at a hull like this.

[FoaS_XC]

Last I checked, smoothing didn't bump the poly count, just distorts the surface appearance to make it more rounded.  As for the aft end of the shuttlebays, they look alright as is, as trying to redo them would add more polys to the hulls than even I'm comfortable with, also it was a pain to do the last time.  Don't want to repeat the process.  When the ship is done and available for download, if you want to try and improve those areas Fury, feel free.  Personally, I'd love to see what you could do because this was my first attempt at a hull like this.

I know smoothing doesn't mess with polycount. what i was saying is that I'm not sure if the nacelles have enough polies, but I can't tell for certain because they aren't smoothed at present (that is the real tell-tale)

[marstone]

I will make a variant with "standard" nacelles. But so far, there isn't much from mine that's too different from the original. Apart from some minor details, it has been pointed out that these nacelles aren't everyone's cup of tea.

I have a strong dislike for them, so will be nice to see an option.  Personal thought is, if you are trying to be TOS you have a fairly constrained limit on how much you can change a look of something.   If you want to call it TOS inspired I have more slack in the looks department.

[Kreeargh]

I have some some ideas that wont help you  , areas where poly cut could be done and game play would be helped but that is just my opinion .     

[Centurus]

Last I checked, smoothing didn't bump the poly count, just distorts the surface appearance to make it more rounded.  As for the aft end of the shuttlebays, they look alright as is, as trying to redo them would add more polys to the hulls than even I'm comfortable with, also it was a pain to do the last time.  Don't want to repeat the process.  When the ship is done and available for download, if you want to try and improve those areas Fury, feel free.  Personally, I'd love to see what you could do because this was my first attempt at a hull like this.

I know smoothing doesn't mess with polycount. what i was saying is that I'm not sure if the nacelles have enough polies, but I can't tell for certain because they aren't smoothed at present (that is the real tell-tale)

That part's my bad Fury.  I know you know smoothing doesn't bump up polies, I was referring to GAFY's post.  I should have said that.  ;-D

[wulf111]

the ship is really taking shape you two are doing a fine job on it keep it up.

[Kreeargh]

Any updates?

[Centurus]

None that I know of.  I just recently ran across the CGI model of the ship, but haven't taken a look at it.  Either way, last I checked, Miles is currently undergoing a system reformat, so updates might be a while. 

[wulf111]

FW i think this is your best work yet keep it up.

[Starforce2]

I think your pylons need to be a bit beefier on the davids.

[atheorhaven]

Normally, I'd not think so.. but based off the engineering hull and the ship you're replacing, yes.  You'd want to increase your width to at least 150% of where it is now, but keep the pylon thickness about the same.

Personal opinion..

[Kreeargh]

Okay.... I am making my return with not only an update to the Roosevelt. Thanks to Wulf  Now has a Poly Count of around 9.5K. Still have a couple of details to re-add. But she is almost ready for mapping. I have no pics of the update for the Roosevelt As there isn't any noticeable difference right now.

I've also been thinking about a single hulled variant....  For the purposes of my Mod. I'm designating it the Davids Class... To replace an old model that has been desperate for a facelift, so far it's Poly Count is around 5-7k. And strangely was easier than the Roosevelt.
As with the Roosevelt there will be an alternative version with the more "Classical" style.
Which I plan to work on later.

Time for Pics

Good work 
Champher the edges of that saucer 1 time that would rock 

[Bernard Guignard]

As far as the Davids is concerned I'd pull the secondary hull back slightly to expose more of the bridge structure
Great work on all the ships by the way  Keep it up. 

[Starforce2]

like the miranda..the spoodhead has too much "bow blade" going on. Looks out of proportion.

[atheorhaven]

Personally, I try to comment when I can get on, and I try to texture when I can.  But I swear, my wife pulls out the divorce papers whenever I look at a computer at home, and I can't install home stuff at work.

So for me these days, it's literally working when I should be sleeping.. or doing rough-in of textures as I can away from home, and polish when I can get to my tools.  :p

Though I'll also tell you.. for me, I work on these because I want to and I don't expect any replies on the WIP thread or release.  Or expect them to be downloaded.  If someone does, fantastic!  If someone can send me a screenshot of how it looks in their game, that makes it even better. 

The thing that really gets me choked though is if someone downloads it, and then ports it and claims it as their own original work.  Good enough to steal, good enough to port, good enough to post, but not good enough to thank or introduce to your community.  It's why I don't port to Bridge Commander.. it lets me see where my stuff gets into the game (if it does).  I suspect that if I went over to a ST: Legacy shipyard, I might see some of mine there as well.  Maybe Armada, and I've had some stuff ported (but credited) in Vegastrike and Starshatter.  And my policy isn't tough.. if you want to port it, hey, show me a picture of it ingame so that I can enjoy.  That's about it.

I think I've gotten more pics of my stuff here from you guys than I have ever had from a porter.. umm, lots more because I can't even remember a single port pic.. :p

[Kreeargh]

Good job Dude  Welcome to active modeler statis .  I cant wait to see ur take on lyran , mirak , isc , gorn, and Pirates.
Side note just some perspective crit. Fatter warp pylons {looks a bit thin} Thin up the torp pylon and push warps forward a bit on the miranda type, and flip edges of the left side bridge area of immage 4png Cardy to = the other side u will notice slight but good smoothing changes when u export. Have fun and keep it up!

[Kreeargh]

 

[Bernard Guignard]

Very nice work there 

[Starforce2]

your pod is proprtionally too thick, IMHO, and the pyramids should be more squat and equilateral. If you want suggestions on placements, start with the far left and right edge of the blade, like the galor, however since you have 2 faces making up the side, you could place 2 there. The 2 you got on the tail just kinda look odd sitting there, try putting them in one of the outside corners. Also those front fwd facing ones don't fit at all with other cards, go with that "deflector beam" stuff they used in ds9, unless you move them, they'd look better between the "bite" and the bussard.

[Starforce2]

that's what I meant..it sticks up too high. You got the keldon idea going there, which isn't bad for the ship it's attached too but ya don't want it looking topheavy either..even though that's irrelevant in space..

[intermech]

They all look really good! I love the detail and the thought that went into them. I really like the nacelles on the Fed!

[FoaS_XC]

Interestig bussard. I like the honeycombing.

[MajorRacal]

Yeah, I like that too.

I don't have any suggestions for your Asia Heraldry/Insignia, but perhaps if you look at existing Asian nation heraldry you'll find your spark.  I've taken a look and so far I can say yellow appears to be the most predominant colour.  Green/Red/Black are also seen a lot.  Wings, feathers and Wheat or plant garland style symbols appear through most of the designs I've looked at.  The crescent moon and single star appear together a lot in Indo-Asian nations, Far Eastern nations seem to reflect farming culture more but some feature a stylised creature such as a dragon, horse or lion.  I quite like some of the stylised horses portrayed in Mongolian heraldry.

[FoaS_XC]

Looking good.

To answer your question: I don't weather my ships anymore (my GI technique adds enough darkness). Even before I did, I never did weather my feds, only my mirak (and even then I stopped).

[Rod ONeal]

This looks real nice! I usually like some weathering. I do it to try and hi-lite details like the plating lines etc...

[MajorRacal]

The original Enterprise model was very heavily weathered, but the detailing was bleached out by lighting and the lo-res nature of SFX in the 60's meant we never saw them properly.  Take a look at the saucer images in particular, these pictures were taken during the restoration of the original 11' model:

http://www.modelermagic.com/?p=8672

[Bernard Guignard]

Fallen Warrior
  That is some nice work there, Keep it up  I especially like seeing your comparison with Andurils.  A suggestion revisit the Bridge
area It looks too small.  Keep the faith people will chime in just give them a little time. 

[marstone]

As I never reply on WIP threads (well, maybe in a blue moon), because I couldn't model a sphere.  Here is a reply.  For what it is worth. 

I like the Asia, looks very good to my eye.  Tho there was alittle boxiness on the round parts (assuming some smoothing will be done yet).

The new necelles look good also, tho my eye has a hard time mentally appling textures for the final look.  I do think it will look increadable. 

Now a last word, for all the threads of WIPS that say they are TOS or pre-TOS your are the only ones I really can say look that part.  Everyone elses look like TNG shp designs to me.  Maybe that is why your models don't get as many comments, they people are looking at TNG style as TOS/P-TOS and just don't have an eye for your actual TOS ships.

Wish I could actually help with pointers but can't.  So keep working. 

[FoaS_XC]

I plan to deal with the bridge soon. As for the replies.... Sorry but no, just because Im not releasing stuff (kind of impossible when no one is willing to help Centurus and myself) I don't get many posts. I'm not posting here for my own gratification, I'm posting here for opinions, for comments, ideas.... And I don't see why so many people can just pass it up. We are supposed to be a community.... And the modders in a group unto themselves....
So then why the heck should I moan and complain about not getting any replies after days of having stuff showing yet other threads here get 6-7 replies in a day. It's not fair and it's not right. I work bloody hard on this stuff as does Centurus. And the majority of you here can't even be bothered to show some simple bloody respect. And say "nice one" or "this sucks". So in all fairness why should I even bother posting?

And the worst thing... You can see who is online at any one time.... And you can roughly guess who is looking at a thread.... So what gets me is its the most regular visitors onto this section of dyna who are showing such disrespect, EVEN THOUGH! I try to comment on every thread to show my support. Where is the support for the work Centurus and I are doing?....... No offers of help or advice, even though its been stated repeatedly...... So where the hell is our support from this community?

I can understand you're frustration. I've released well over 50 ships now. If you add up the number of downloads vs. the number of C&C you get a ratio of about 50:1. It is what it is, though.

[Centurus]

It would be nice to get more replies to be honest.  Things have gotten very quiet around here these days, not like how they were back when I first started coming around this place. 

[FoaS_XC]

Some people just don't post as often. Some people lurk. C'est la vie, man. You can either take umbrage at the lack of response and stop showing your work, or you can post in spite of it. It's up to you. In my thread, I've gone in a stream of 8 or 9 posts before a single person responds. I've had to resurrect my own thread more than once that way, too. It is what it is.

[FoaS_XC]

Now ask yourself I mean seriously ask your self Fury, considering how many other communities your part of... Does this place feel anything like it was and don't YOU feel that you are unappreciated that what you do here is wasted at times? I mean you must have wanted to become an Admin here to help get some changes in to help benefit the rest of us surely????

No, it doesn't - but that's (A) part in parcel of having a community for a game that came out in 1999 (B) people always come and go. I know many people who have gone on hiatuses for months at a time, even years (hell, I've done it before) but they come back from time to time. I did feel unappreciated for a time. Not so much anymore. I don't do it for you guys, I do it because I have fun doing it and that is never a wasted time.
I became a mod here because I noticed that for a small time there were a few flame wars cropping up and I thought it wise to have a guy who is a modeler be a mod of a modeler forum. Also, I wanted to have at least someone in a place of authority to enforce permissions across this community and in dealing with others (BC, Legacy) I wanted to be in a position to raise hell either with them or among here if permissions were improperly handled. I approached the admins and they said "sure thing".
Truth be told I've had ideas on getting a ball rolling (a modeling or design contest, and the SFC4 project) but they kind of stalled. So I will wait until people flood back in before I go full bore on anything.

[Centurus]

If the day comes where necro threads are locked because someone asks if there's any progress, I'm gone.  Also, if the day comes where I'm either given a warning or a temp ban for hijacking my own threads, I'm gone.  One more thing, should ever you guys stop servicing the toilets, I'm gone.


Ok, that last one probably gave you guys good reason to get rid of me.

[Chrystoff]

Guys, I'll just say this. I am not a modeler. I've taken a few shots at it, and done a few extremely simple kitbashes. I do not have the talent or patience for it, and am very appreciative of those of you that seem to be able to do this sort of detailed work in your sleep. That's why I stay here, that's why I still play the game, and that's why I come on to see what's cooking. Fury's models of late have really revitalized my game. I tend to prefer TMP era ships, which is why I haven't said anything about Fallen's work. Under-appreciated? Not by me. I'm in awe of all of the modelers on this board, whether I like their work or not. I will make comments here or there, or make requests (I still wish someone would take an honest shot at an Ingram class Space Control Ship), but I don't feel comfortable making comments about peoples work when my skills are non-existent.

[FoaS_XC]

Maybe instead of competing we could do some group projects like find one of the designs on the "ships i'd like to see most" Thread

Not a bad idea.

If I could I would make an Ingram, But the best person to ask would be Centurus as he has the most recent experience as shown with his XCA and such. And if someone would help him map it I would help texture....

I have a few schematics of the ingram class. If I am not entirely mistaken, it is basically a modification of the excelsior, or similarly build, no?

On a side note any offers of advice or something as to the "braces" on the connie hull?

Extrude in a socket for it, and then build a separate element that will fit in the socket, I would think.

[Chrystoff]

Thanks, Fallen! If something spurs to mind when I see what people are constructing, I'll make sure to share it. 

[Chrystoff]

If I could I would make an Ingram, But the best person to ask would be Centurus as he has the most recent experience as shown with his XCA and such. And if someone would help him map it I would help texture....

I have a few schematics of the ingram class. If I am not entirely mistaken, it is basically a modification of the excelsior, or similarly build, no?
[/quote]

You're correct, Fury. The Ingram is basically an Excelsior-build vessel with greater, and much more obvious looking hanger facilities, mega-phaser cannon (I know, I know, many people don't subscribe to mega-phaser lore, I happen to think it's cool), and more TMP-ish design qualities than the Excelsior.

[FoaS_XC]

Someone on deviantart posted a few ingram variants, I might take a look at them :-)

[Centurus]

Someone over on Scifi-Meshes has been making a really detailed Ingram Class model.

[FoaS_XC]

Someone over on Scifi-Meshes has been making a really detailed Ingram Class model.

Same guy :-)

[Centurus]

Very good.

[Chrystoff]

Someone on deviantart posted a few ingram variants, I might take a look at them :-)

Thanks!

[Centurus]

You said who to the what now?

[Centurus]

I retype my previous post, "You said who to the what now?"

[FoaS_XC]

check.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

But yeah, on a side note Chrystoff mentioned feeling slightly intimidated about making posts on some peoples work. due to the level of skills..... Maybe we can get a brainstorm thread or something to help encourage the opposite.

That sounds like a good idea. I usually feel the same way about commenting . . . I like to comment on designs that hit me a certain way and point out why, but if I can't think of anything more than "nice job," I usually just lurk. I can't pretend to know what it's like to spend as long a time as you have on something (modeling, in this case) and not get any responses, but I understand how it can be annoying -- my favorite thing to discuss is SFC itself, but I'm sure you know how barren the General and Dynaverse II boards are.

[FoaS_XC]

Would maybe a rating system work?... Or the Old Award system be brought back? Maybe you guys could have a regular vote for different things about our work... Like add a bit of competition or co-operation between those of us who make things?.... Example;
. Monthly poll for the most dedicated to detail / innovative design / Progress made as a modder.
. Best crafted joint construction project.
. Which team up would you like to see and what model.....
. A Special Parts/retexture request thread for kitbashing or personalization.
Anything else you guys can come up with as well would sure help us out

I can give some thought to this. I'm just worried about the rift between experienced modelers/designers and those with lesser experience. I don't want WZ or Tus to get all the awards, you know?

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

The limited award system sounds neat, and a stickied thread could easily do it. I think it would also be easier to jump in on too.

Hmmm . . . personally, I am most interested in the modeling stuff at its earliest stages, such as sketches, model outlines, and even written thoughts. I think the early stages are something that anyone on these forums (is anyone not interested in starships here?  ) can provide input, instead of commenting on progress further down the road and during the actual model construction, where not all of us have the knowledge or experience in modeling to provide anything useful. So I'll be sure to look out for beginnings of ideas that everyone has. I'm not sure how many rough sketches most modelers do before they try to make the finished product, but I'm sure I'm not alone in seeing them and trying to help out there.

And more easy to understand tutorials with software that is readily accessible. IE GMAX and The GIMP or something... Ways that we can diminish the rifts of experience and abilities??

That's a good idea, I'm sure there would be a lot of interest.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

What else do you think would help. I like the idea of a thread to help bridge the rifts.... How would we go about something like this Guys?

Should we (meaning one of you guys respected in the modeling community) just make a thread and see where it goes? After it gets established, hopefully it would be stickied, and maybe it could be easy to read by having the first post be categorized with links and constantly edited. Just thinking outloud as far as the categories could go:

• Rating/award system
      - One for detail/innovation/progress
      - One for the best crafted joint construction project (does this mean the best team-made model?)
      - One for best newcomer modeler?
• Model requests/team requests (there's already a model-you'd-like-to-see thread, so maybe this would only be for team requests)
• Part/texture requests
• What is generally needed? For example: TNG Romulans in demand, etc.

[FoaS_XC]

Let me talk it over with some of the moderators - see what they think about it. Since something like that has the potential to get a motivational / friendly rivalry going, it also has the potential to be controversial.

[Chrystoff]

Let me talk it over with some of the moderators - see what they think about it. Since something like that has the potential to get a motivational / friendly rivalry going, it also has the potential to be controversial.

Sucks that it winds up that way. But you're absolutely right.

[Roychipoqua_Mace]

Awesome, thanks FoaS.

[marstone]

Some people just don't post as often. Some people lurk. C'est la vie, man. You can either take umbrage at the lack of response and stop showing your work, or you can post in spite of it. It's up to you. In my thread, I've gone in a stream of 8 or 9 posts before a single person responds. I've had to resurrect my own thread more than once that way, too. It is what it is.

Not sure how many people do it, but another reason I don't post on WIPs is that 90% of the time now, I check Dyna with my Blackberry.  It doesn't show the pics, so couldn't reply about them even if I wanted to most of the time.

[markyd]

Nice work Miles, you have improved greatly.

You can model no doubt, but you need to get all those separate shapes into a singular workable model.

But still good stuff. oh and those bussards a page or so back....         AWSOME!!!! best I have seen...   

[markyd]

Thats a fair point, I did offer that..   been busy mind the last 6 months.. fraggin up the talliban  but we are talking pre-tour...   

I still owe u that, and not because i stick to a promise but because, i consider you a good friend and i owe it to you, so the offer is still open.. i will of course need to book the weekend with the missues :-) I have 4 weeks off soon, the missues wants to go home to portugal...  but there must be a free weekend in there

She is happy for me to do my moddeling thing..  so lets get it on..  not to spam ur thread, but all messengers i have used on xp 64 have removed all my contacts 

[Centurus]

Miles, you know how I feel about that bussard.  It's better than what most BC modelers usually do.  That's why this beauty of a bussard texture is gonna be used on the Demphir.

[markyd]

Thats a fair point, I did offer that..   been busy mind the last 6 months.. fraggin up the talliban  but we are talking pre-tour...   

I still owe u that, and not because i stick to a promise but because, i consider you a good friend and i owe it to you, so the offer is still open.. i will of course need to book the weekend with the missues :-) I have 4 weeks off soon, the missues wants to go home to portugal...  but there must be a free weekend in there

She is happy for me to do my moddeling thing..  so lets get it on..  not to spam ur thread, but all messengers i have used on xp 64 have removed all my contacts 

Shoot me some PM's and such we can sort it out over email or phone if needed. Sort stuff out.

Miles, you know how I feel about that bussard.  It's better than what most BC modelers usually do.  That's why this beauty of a bussard texture is gonna be used on the Demphir.

This is because your biased and wanted it on the Demphir the second you saw the starting process

I would not say he is being biased... infact I dare anyone to post a better JJ / Era feel bussard...   its very impressive..

\let me get the weekend done, with the missues, then we can chat dates    and to say.. i look forward to it...  Domioes, a few beers and modelling sh*t... we need friday and a sat mind.  back home on the sunday to walk the dog. 

[Centurus]

*turns into Hulk*  HULK SMASH JJ ABRAMS!!!!!  SMASH SMASH SMASH!!!!!  *turns into Homer Simpson*  Ooohh, pancakes.....*drools*

[markyd]

Ahhhhh lol  The man hates JJ  ...........      Sorry dude I forgot.. still nice homer intake 

[Bernard Guignard]

Nice work Miles, you have improved greatly.

You can model no doubt, but you need to get all those separate shapes into a singular workable model.

But still good stuff. oh and those bussards a page or so back....         AWSOME!!!! best I have seen...   

Hey dude, cheers!

Hello Fallen Warrior
 Great work on the Bussard Texture   
are you also going to map it to a regular Constitution class warp engine to see what it would look like ?
Keep up the great work

But 2 point's I'd like to point out. Firstly that I would like my stuff to remain bashable. Second and No offence here.... I remember you promising that for the price of some beers and a good brummie curry. You would show up at my place and teach me how to do something close to real meshing and mapping.
Secondly the last nacelle I made.. The Roosevelt/Asia hybrid only has 5 objects in it 3 being pipes. So it could be worse. The original Roosevelt had 19 objects. So there is a lot of improvement with nigh on hardly any help. (Except Centurus and Wulf who have been outstanding)


As for the bussard if you mean the one that is reattached in this posting. Then ooh yes I do so agree, whilst I know it has a couple of my usual "texture" bash layers mixed in (Refeer to WZ's bussard in the centre as a subtle nod to his outstanding work) For one I think I'm very proud of it because it took several hours to make and it was only 512x512. Second because it is a nice updated TOS look without been too gawdy. Maybe because it appears to have so much depth and maybe a hint at movement...

I have been wanting to add a couple of touches into that nacelle, namely some transparencies..... The Warp grills, bussard and the rear glow thing. But I doubt this as I might just make a higher poly version....

[markyd]

I like the new nacelle cap, look forward to seeing the nacelle to go with it. 

[Bernard Guignard]

How about WZ's Patton?

Yes that looks awesome   

[Bernard Guignard]

Ok..... I think the nacelle is starting to come together... I have a rough design worked out I think... It's very rough but this would be the best time to make suggestions. before it becomes sets in stone...

I also have a warp coil... Yep an actual coil... I think there's between 20 and 32 coils within the total length of the nacelle.. I think... Either way this has officially gone beyond SFC poly limits...

My suggestion once you finalize the interior and exterior make a copy and leave the external shell only for SFC purposes    Great work by the way looks like a  pre-cursor to  the TMP nacelles  Keep up the great work

[Chrystoff]

okay theres some bad news and some worse news.... both are the same... The lovely heatwave england is enjoying has claimed its first victim... Chronos my dualcore HP laptop died today.... Hopefully I can save the data otherwise bye bye wonderful detailed nacelle and other such goodies.

I'm really sorry to hear that, Fallen.  That's modern technology for ya.

[marstone]

okay theres some bad news and some worse news.... both are the same... The lovely heatwave england is enjoying has claimed its first victim... Chronos my dualcore HP laptop died today.... Hopefully I can save the data otherwise bye bye wonderful detailed nacelle and other such goodies.

Too bad you don't live over on this side of the puddle.  We are starting out for another coolest summer in a long time.  Last year I don't remember a day in the 90's, this year looks about the same so far.

[FoaS_XC]

okay theres some bad news and some worse news.... both are the same... The lovely heatwave england is enjoying has claimed its first victim... Chronos my dualcore HP laptop died today.... Hopefully I can save the data otherwise bye bye wonderful detailed nacelle and other such goodies.

Ooffah. Lets hope the harddrive is okay.

[Kreeargh]

Sorry dude that sucks.

[atheorhaven]

okay theres some bad news and some worse news.... both are the same... The lovely heatwave england is enjoying has claimed its first victim... Chronos my dualcore HP laptop died today.... Hopefully I can save the data otherwise bye bye wonderful detailed nacelle and other such goodies.

Dude, with luck it's the mobo.. if you didn't have TPM enabled on that system, you can still pull data off the drives, or run them as externals on a working system.

Just need an IDE or SATA to USB adapter (or dock) that can handle the 2.5 drives from a laptop.  It's my line of work, I do this all the time. 

Even if it's the drives, 80 percent of the time you can still get data off.  So don't give up hope, most of the time you can still get a lot of it back. 

Question is, do you have a reliable system that you can work on.. and restore data to?

[markyd]

Nice nacelle miles, think you have it down..  pitty about ur lappy..

On the + though, I just fixed my Green Alienware one..  ahhh  (new screen & keyboard, removed all fans..  7 in total  urghhh..  new thermal compound and a good clean  )

Hope you manage to save ur work, oh and I think what bernard is saying is quite cool too...  all those bits ur showing where for the inside right for a high ploy mesh.. when ur done, just delete all the inside

pieces and release the outer mesh for sfc.

Nice stuff.

[markyd]

Nice,

how much did you splash out on it?

[Kreeargh]

Sweet looks Tron like do they have that in blue? That would rock if you could change the color layout.

[Kreeargh]

you can change the colours of the keyboard.... and as usual if your ordering direct you can have whatever colour you want...

Oh man if i could afford something like that I would have it spell tron in blue T R O N blue box then rest of the letters would be red and any other outlines would be blue  just a dream of mine though  .

[markyd]

over 2 grand

Ouch..

When I bought my new lappy to replace my broken alienware (that i just repaired) I was looking at the new alienware lineups..  they where far too overpriced for the spec in my opinion.

Si I went with the MSI GT 729 UK Edition

    * Screen size - 17 in - 1680 x 1050
    * Processor - Intel Core 2 Quad Q9000 - 2 GHz
    * RAM - 4 GB
    * Hard Drive - 500 GB
    * Operating System - Microsoft Windows 7 Ulitmate
    * Optical Drive - DVD±RW / DVD-RAM - Blueray
    * Graphics - ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4850
    * Webcam - Integrated

for £1200 It is a bargain, and I love it.. and the only thing the alienware has thats better is the screen res. But a new 1920 x 1200 screen for this will cost me only £90 so when the warranty runs out in 2 years I may stick one in.

Still..  the keyboard does not change colour 

Lol

I can see you having plenty of fun with that bad boy 

[markyd]

I take it your waiting for your new rig before you start models again?

Im currently waiting on my new ATI FIREGL v7350 to come through the post.. dedicated CAD / DCC GPU 

Thats my Desktop all squared away then:

26" Ilyama HDMI 2ms Pro Monitor 1920 x 1200
8 Gig Ram
Quad core 8600
ATI FIREGL v7350
500 Gb Hdd
Logitech Performance mouse
Logitech Illuminated Keyboard
External 1TB

& My new WACOM Cintiq 17" Widescreen

That should eat some polygons, and the cintiq is a dream. 

Back onto the subject though..

Are you going to build this again? did you loose the bussard texture too??

[markyd]

Good good...

But if your still replying to this you can still use the machine ur on to make summat... sh@t i used my web book on a course to make a few.. that sucked, 

[markyd]

Yeah..

I had this issue with my alienware, they delivered the laptop bag on time though 

I got the lappy 4 weeks later 

[Kreeargh]

Well It arrived this morning..... and I'm still configuring and installing stuff onto it..... Why does win7 feel it has to flood the taskbar with crap.... what ever having just a few tiny icons by the clock..... That and I still have like 70 processes to find out about (need to see what I can kill or not)

Does anyone have any tips for win7..... As I already hate it.... Too much useless crap and even worse features. But I doubt I can format and roll back to XP.....

I think vista/W7 = free goverment hacking tools so, no matter what you are a criminal. 

[markyd]

I like the shuttle idea, with the integrated necelles in the wings / lowered pylons. 

[Kreeargh]

I like the Galaxy but not sure about the warps , I did a Tmp version of LS galaxy and tryed that  with Tmp style i think i had 2 replys for the thread  So not sure how this goes but if YOU like it go for it screw others!

[Kreeargh]

well the nacelle is unfinished right now, theres a gap where the 2 bussards meet... doesnt help that its a kitbash of a finished nacelle i did last year.

Can you show or send  a wire frame pic ? I might be able to help. 

[Kreeargh]

Here is my fix others may have a better option but Verts are the Key more than 1 vert on a "single" point weld them.   What i did was weld the points that were hollow and added poly in. To get smoothing right more verts need to be welded and turn edges on some poly to make things =.  I dont think i screwed up any maping by welding the verts as they didnot change for me but i did not weld any more than i thought needed just incase.
Go lower poly on the balls  try an Octa geosphere segments 4  or 5 + if want lower make a hemisphere and grab the middle vert and drag it back to the warp Most gameing close ups would not see any thing it drops the poly alot and still allows mostly the same smoothing effects.

[Kreeargh]

Thanks a lot dude, hole is capped very nicely. Sorry I wasn't able to respond before today. Last few days have been taken up by a lot of RL trouble. luckily though things have evened out for a while.

Dude enjoy the new wife life , this moding thing is small beans to real!

[Starfox1701]

Thanks a lot dude, hole is capped very nicely. Sorry I wasn't able to respond before today. Last few days have been taken up by a lot of RL trouble. luckily though things have evened out for a while.

Dude enjoy the new wife life , this moding thing is small beans to real!

Seconded man we aren't going anywhere

[markyd]

I love that texture for the bussard.. 

It has always impressed me 

[GotAFarmYet?]

Thanks FW,

If you come down to textures I will see about getting PSP running on this PC, or get my XP box up and running again

[GotAFarmYet?]

Me mostly

Anyways type up the list and lets see what can be done, and what needs to be done

[intermech]

SFC3 is a bit more unforgiving in break models than the earlier versions because of the slow separation. The older versions, a debris field was fine because it would explode so quickly.  Can I make a recommendation for easy *.brk Model that seem to do the job in SFC3? Granted, it does not take advantage of the game engine's separating model feature, but it is a quick, easy and sensible placeholder:

Copy the existing model file, and add _brk.mod then you can use a *.gf file with a huge sprite right in the middle of the model and name it the same as the new brk model file. You can use the same *.gf for all of them. If you check out my scaled mod that is available on sfc3files.com, I have replaced the glow sprite with an explosion in the *.gf file (and removed all glows from intact models). This is a sort of poor man's break model because it does not require Max to build it.